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24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise 24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise

04-12-2017 , 03:16 PM
8.80 1k guaranteed on Ignition
nearing the bubble, could possibly even be ITM (can't remember exactly)

Hero BB (24bb's) A8o
VILLAIN BU (43 bb's)

Villain has been raising often, especially in co/bu when folded to him. I would say he is a solid aggro reg who does not get out of line post flop but is definitely aware of icm/bubble play and puts pressure on opponents etc...Has been 3 betting ip as well.

He has raised the button the last few orbits that it open folded to him. I have a8o in bb. Folds to villain on button, he makes a 2.2x raise, sb folds, hero....?

I feel 24 bb's may be too big to 3 bet jam, but if make a normal 3 bet, then I'm left with an awkward SPR post flop. Don't like flatting against him either.

Whats the best play against this opponent?
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-12-2017 , 04:41 PM
24bb is at the top end of a reshove stack but against this V it looks a nice spot -especially if you have a fairly tight image - he may be folding up to 80% of opening range

The alternative is to flat which is lower variance but not really keen on this vs a good player
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-12-2017 , 06:00 PM
I'm pretty ok with defending A8o against a button open from this villain.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-12-2017 , 07:02 PM
I'd rather just call with this stack size. maybe 14-20 I'd shove
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-12-2017 , 09:57 PM
The problem with flatting against a player like this is they are going to make it very difficult post flop for me unless I flop a favorable flop (ace, 8 hi flop etc...) and that's just not going to happen often enough for this call to be profitable. Therefore, a raise is the best option but I just didn't know if I should shove or make standard 3 bet.

It's really not a complex hand or anything. I think I should have just jammed.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 08:54 AM
I don't mind flatting here, but if you're uncomfortable playing HU OOP vs a decent reg then jamming is fine too and maximize your FE.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 08:59 AM
It isn't ideal but I would just jam pre. Flatting is really awkward because A8 flops poorly and he's going to CB 100%. Stack size makes it difficult to maneuver postflop.

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24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHO_RUNIT
The problem with flatting against a player like this is they are going to make it very difficult post flop for me unless I flop a favorable flop (ace, 8 hi flop etc...) and that's just not going to happen often enough for this call to be profitable. Therefore, a raise is the best option but I just didn't know if I should shove or make standard 3 bet.

It's really not a complex hand or anything. I think I should have just jammed.
You don't think calling is profitable with those odds against villains range? What does your calling range look like in this spot?
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta
You don't think calling is profitable with those odds against villains range? What does your calling range look like in this spot?
The problem is calling doesn't end the hand, you still have to play postflop OOP with a hand that doesn't flop well.

Say you call the raise. You now have 23bb and the flop pot is 5bb. Flop comes K72 or J66 or Q87 with suits you don't have or whatever. So you check and villain bets 3bb. Now what?

Calling just because you're likely ahead of villain's opening range isn't always the best play. You have to think ahead to future streets and how the hand might play out.

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24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
The problem is calling doesn't end the hand, you still have to play postflop OOP with a hand that doesn't flop well.

Say you call the raise. You now have 23bb and the flop pot is 5bb. Flop comes K72 or J66 or Q87 with suits you don't have or whatever. So you check and villain bets 3bb. Now what?

Calling just because you're likely ahead of villain's opening range isn't always the best play. You have to think ahead to future streets and how the hand might play out.

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Agreed, but you're also minimizing variance because if you do jam you're only getting called by a hand that likely dominates you.

I think either/or is fine depending on how you feel playing post flop in this scenario
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onehandatatime
Agreed, but you're also minimizing variance because if you do jam you're only getting called by a hand that likely dominates you.

I think either/or is fine depending on how you feel playing post flop in this scenario
Your fold equity is huge in this spot. Villain is very aggressive and likely opening a wide range. Shoving is unexploitable because he can only call with the top of his range.

Say he's opening 30% there. He can really only call with top 5%, which means he's folding 85% of the time. And you'll still have about 25% equity against such a tight range if you do get called.

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24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-13-2017 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
Your fold equity is huge in this spot. Villain is very aggressive and likely opening a wide range. Shoving is unexploitable because he can only call with the top of his range.

Say he's opening 30% there. He can really only call with top 5%, which means he's folding 85% of the time. And you'll still have about 25% equity against such a tight range if you do get called.

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Dont get me wrong in play I probably jam as well, but I do see some merit in flatting.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-14-2017 , 07:37 AM
3 bet looks tighter vs a Jamm at this point imo, both plays are good, calling is ok either but i like more the agg way.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-14-2017 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta
You don't think calling is profitable with those odds against villains range? What does your calling range look like in this spot?

Not oop with a8offsuit against an aggressive opponent who is capable of double and triple barreling.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-15-2017 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodream8
3 bet looks tighter vs a Jamm at this point imo, both plays are good, calling is ok either but i like more the agg way.
Are we 3bet/folding or 3bet/gii? We are just a bit too shallow and villain is too deep to be 3bet/folding plus we're OOP. Also, if we do 3 bet with the plan to GII and villain calls then this is obviously not great for us as we're playing OOP with a marginal hand. I definitely like jamming more than any type of 3bet here.
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-15-2017 , 10:34 PM
if isnt on the bubble, pretty easy shove vs this type of opponet that u are describing
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote
04-16-2017 , 09:18 AM
I would just shove it in pre, call isnt an option because of the awkward SPR and A8 just does not play nice postflop.

a 24 bb shove versus is fine imo, but when it was on the bubble this would just be a fold to me. Pretty sure you will get better spots with 24 big blinds!
24bbs in bb w a8 against aggro button raise Quote

      
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