#Game No : 415511175
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 415511175 *****
$150/$300 Blinds No Limit Holdem - ***
Tournament #56911243 $200 + $15 - Table #68 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: pavalucci ( $4,311 )
Seat 2: london_ace ( $13,581 ) >>>>>>>>> hero
Seat 3: bicrunga76 ( $7,761 )
Seat 4: cshine87 ( $12,673 )
Seat 5: lokki186 ( $22,801 ) >>>>>>> villian
Seat 6: HhCMotU ( $6,120 )
Seat 7: SanttuO ( $24,961 )
Seat 9: OAPimPno1 ( $10,597 )
Seat 10: FATdIsAsTrrr ( $20,214 )
bicrunga76 posts ante [$30]
lokki186 posts ante [$30]
pavalucci posts ante [$30]
london_ace posts ante [$30]
cshine87 posts ante [$30]
HhCMotU posts ante [$30]
OAPimPno1 posts ante [$30]
FATdIsAsTrrr posts ante [$30]
SanttuO posts ante [$30]
lokki186 posts small blind [$150]
HhCMotU posts big blind [$300]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ A, Q ]
SanttuO folds
OAPimPno1 folds
FATdIsAsTrrr folds
pavalucci folds
london_ace raises [$660]
bicrunga76 folds
cshine87 folds
lokki186 raises [$1,435]
HhCMotU folds
london_ace calls [$925]
** Dealing flop ** [ 5, J, Q]
lokki186 bets [$1,825]
london_ace calls [$1,825]
** Dealing turn ** [ 6 ]
lokki186 bets [$2,740]
london_ace calls [$2,740]
** Dealing river ** [ 5 ]
lokki186 bets [$16,621]
london_ace ??????



Hey,

I managed to get through a sat to play in this tourney, it was a dream come true!!! the sunday mega deep was just the best feeling ever, i tell you now i got knocked out right before the bubble and i wanted to post the thread of that , but ive not got it , i was a shorty pretty much and shoved with AKo from the sb against a cutoff raise and yeah bb wakes up with 88 and shoves im out. I dont know if that was ev+ play to shove with AKo there? i really dont if u guys know let me know....

anyway , this hand here ....reads on villian is that , they are quite loose they do open up a fair bit , but seems like a good player and has not got out of hand post flop. I've not seen them make any 3bets either , but im certain that its polarized....they decided to 3bet me from the SB, they are very much capable of doing this with very strong type of hands like JJ+ maybe hands like 56s+ A2s+ as a bluff , and i decided to call their 3bet.


The way that hand has played was kinda mad i just never knew if i was ahead or behind , i know that hands like AA , KK, QQ JJ has got us beat , and villian may have it ....

hands we beat 99, 10s , KJo KQ AJs, also unlikely for villian to barrel 3 streets with imo....

on villians behalf value betting a strong hand otf makes more sense as its draw heavy..


If i had reads post flop on the way they played, it would of been easier, for instance if i knew that villian bets out otf with top pair or 2ed pair type of hands it would be an easy call to continue with our hand or that villian barrels 3 streets with medicore hands or likes to triple barrel bluff and show down weak hands ect, i may then decide to call 3 streets since im ahead of their value/bluffing range, but with lack of reads on their postflop play im not sure if im ahead of their value betting range. hero found it diffcult to make a call otr, because i feel that we are beat....unless villian is looking to triple barrel bluff with a FD or a hand like top pair decent kicker...then im ahead!

thoughts please?

Your range is super capped on the river so if villain is at all good and knows this, he will be 3barreling his entire 2barrel range. I would think he would have enough KJ, KT, AThh, AKhh type hands in his range that he can turn into a bluff to make this a snap +EV call OTR. His value range is pretty much JJ+, QJ, quads and the occasional funky played 66.

Agree with the above - i'd call

You're answers still dont convice me that it's correct to call unfortuntly , I agree that my range is super capped though, but i mean with lack of reads post flop on this player calling 3 streets with top pair decent kicker with 45bb doesnt sound great...

obv there will be times where our hand is good , but villian has 3bet us pre , what makes u so sure that villian aint holding a hand like JJ+

this is a diffcult spot imo ....

I think you should post this in the HS forum.

I don't think it's an easy "call". TBH I would likely fold the river myself even though it looks like a busted draw on his part. His range is polarized but if he has a brain which player's at this level often have he knows that you are likely calling down in a 3b pot with a hand that has showdown value and he's likely going to get max value otr from you if he makes a polarizing over-bet knowing that a lot of heros don't like folding top pair in such situations. I think it's too much to risk at this stage even though you had 45bb to boot. There's still play left and we can easily regain our stack.

When do we stop making super exploitable folds with the top of our range?

Simon - I also wouldn't say its always an easy call and does depend a bit on heroes image. If hero has been playing tightish and villain is decent and aware hero doesn't usually play these stakes then I do think it is an easy call.

But even if this doesn't apply, villains sizings would be good for busted draws etc. As you say villain range is polarized and still think calling is fine anyway even though villain def has it some of the time. Would also be interested to see replies in HSMTT

It's neither a fist pump call nor a fist pump fold. I gave my response based off of it being pre ante and this info:

Call it exploitable (or w/e exploitive you want) but I am not in the habit of calling off my entire stack in the early stages pre ante with tpgk vs a triple barrel in a 3b pot vs a "good" player especially in a high buyin event.

I could be completely wrong in my response and if I am I will gladly stand corrected.

Fold turn, as played fold river.

meant to add, by river you've invested 20 of that 45bb

sometimes this is going to mean villain thinks you're never folding like Simon said and is just value betting made hands. but i also think it gives you a decent reason to call vs a polarised range.

I don't see how you can fold the river after calling ott. The pot's roughly 12900 otr and you only have 7400 left in your stack (which i think is still enough for villain to think he would have some fold equity). Plenty of draws bricked and your read is that villain is quite loose.

Well the bet ott was small - i think it was like around 35% pot - and then the bet otr is an over-bet shove by about 15% I think (w/out adding it up in a calculator) ... It seemed reasonable to me to call a "smallish" turn bet and fold to a river overbet as part of a plan in calling the turn bet.

I want to be honest in that I struggle with these spots and can gain a lot from the advice in this hand.

The lesson in this hand is: "what are we going to do ott that dictates our action otr?" - aka - planning ahead. I think just blankly calling ott without having a plan otr is bad here. So the question is in poll fashion what's the best plan starting ott.

A) fold turn because we are going to face a lot of action and this action likely means our TPGK is not good.
B) call the turn because the bet is small and if he over shoves otr we can fold because of reasons I mentioned above.
C) call the turn because we are good and we are getting to showdown. This means we are committed and we are going to call a shove otr because of reasons everyone else has stated.

I guess the key is just knowing what we are going to do ott. If that's the case then we fold the turn if we are going to fold otr and call the turn and call off otr. either way I stand corrected and have learned something here - thanks folks!

which is why I think ECJENSEN56 wins this thread. If we are going to fold - it's not otr - it's ott. If we call ott - then we plan on calling otr as per everyone else. The idea is the "plan".

yeah def need to be thinking ahead on turn in these spots

i'd be planning on calling non-hearts on river if i called turn. not sure i'd call river if a heart came and villain made this play though.

wow, very intresting responses!!

Ty all!

Simon bro , you're right hero should def have a plan , on what he will be doing otr, I agree with that. we should have a plan on every street and this makes it easier when we get there.

It was a tough call it really was ( hero tanked then folded), it's also the buy in @ 215 i was like on the edge of my seat ,but yet very enjoyable and the experince was good to play against players that are more on a advanced level.

i managed to gain chips back in that tourney after that had, because i knew i was capable of doing so , but got busted right before the bubble like i said , which was harsh tbh lol.

sometimes u gotta make big folds and those big folds can make u go on and win a tourney or vice versa it might make u bust out early because ur not accumlating enough chips all in all having a plan is one of the most important thing to keep in my mind when playing poker so u dont get confused when your facing bet/raise from your opponent.



gg!