Hi no reads, thought on all streets appreciated.





[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $10 Buy-in (90/180 blinds, 27 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37797331

Hero (UTG+2): 11,292 (62.7 bb)
MP1: 18,707 (103.9 bb)
MP2: 6,104 (33.9 bb)
MP3: 19,743 (109.7 bb)
CO: 6,864 (38.1 bb)
BTN: 6,717 (37.3 bb)
SB: 5,200 (28.9 bb)
BB: 5,495 (30.5 bb)
UTG+1: 4,877 (27.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J J
UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to 396, 2 folds, MP3 raises to 1,161, 2 folds, SB calls 1,071, BB folds, Hero calls 765

Flop: (3,906) 2 9 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets 3,240, SB folds, hero?

Awkward spot preflop, jacks are doing too hot three ways so I wouldn't mind a three bet here but that could put you in an even more awkward spot if MP3 5-bets or calls and you got to play out of position post flop. The advantage to this is you get betting lead, could also get it in for SB bounty or pick up a lot of dead money.

Postflop I think you have re-jam here, sometimes you are against a bigger pair here or a flush draw (though you block that). But the odd time he calls off with TT and A9, some of the time, he also folds two overcards that missed this flop and you get a massive chip up.

Pre flop i'd just flat the 3b too.

Flop is tough. With the size of villains bet i would imagine they arent folding to a shove. I would discount random AQ/AK over cards given the bet size into 2 players. This looks looks like a cooler but if you fold you still have a decent stack to work with. Tough decision indeed. In the moment, i probably shove but i'm interested to hear other opinions on this because i'm not convinced shoving is the best move.

without a read I think flop is a sigh fold - Sizing of 3b is large which does not suggest a habitual 3 bettor - so strong range - cbet commits V to call small blind - who could have a monster here . I doubt he does this with AK

His C-bet is less than 3x, this is standard stuff, how does that strengthen his range.

people who are making a habit of light 3 bets often size more like 2.5x ip in my experience

Absent a read you have to credit him with a pretty strong range 3-betting an early raise from MP. And the flop bet size is interesting - probably reflecting a desire to protect against draws multiway. I can't see an unknown villain betting this large with naked AK or even AKdd/AQdd. So I think his range is pretty limited to TT/QQ-AA.

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Gross.
I mean with the Jd and the fact that this is gonna be near the top of our range (yeah we can flat better hands pre but sometimes we 4bet) I don't think we can fold right?

I don't really know what to do between jamming and calling. Like, I guess we could call and then call jams on any non A/K/Q turn? He may not even fold overcards if we rip it on the flop because "omg there's a bounty!".

I get the argument for folding too, but I think this hand is way too high up in our distribution.


Edit:
Actually, I just went back over the PF action, we're definitely 4bet getting in better hands preflop because of the SB flat (for the bounty). Other than sets, and maybe (maaaaaayyyyyybe) QQ this is probably the best hand we ever have here. Don't think we can fold flop at all. So I guess I'm going with call flop and call turn on any non A/K/Q

bump

dont think we can ever fold when he has AQ,AQ,TT in range, we only beat by 3 hands qq I would call

With no reads, I'd sigh-fold.

Reasons:

1. - Unknown 3b's your EP raise.
2. - Unknowns usually don't 3b-bluff much preflop, esp. vs. EP raises.
3. - He cbets into both of you. The SB's cold call with you still to act reps a lot of strength. So MP3 is betting into two strong ranges.
4. - He uses a large sizing, which is usually consistent with unknowns when they have overpairs on this flop texture.
5. - Because both SB and your ranges are strong, I doubt he c-bets AK/AQ type hands often on this flop texture unless it's AKdd/AQdd.
6. - Our Jd blocks some of the semibluffs he can have, if he has any to begin with.
7. - Folding still leaves us a healthy stack, no need to play for stacks here in a marginal/unclear spot for 62bb.
8. - MP3 has us covered, so there is no extra bounty incentive.

*Also, if I'm villain, I'm usually flatting AQ/TT pre

I like the preflop raise to be bigger.

People 3bet more often these days so call the flop bet and evaluate the turn. I wouldn't shove because there aren't many FDs at all in his range and he may fold his ace high over cards.

Bit left field but thats not a bad flop to donk 1/3 bet with your hand because he is probably calling with ace highs over cards and any FD and jamming the rest which you could fold to.

If he calls your donk bet you are in front?

It's basically 1010 or ak, aq diamonds which u are ahead

or QQ KK AA, which ur way behind.

I think I wait for a better spot in this instance, if you invested more pre I'd be more inclined to go with it but if you fold you still have 45-50BBs. I think this early in the tournament this a lot more weighted towards big pocket pairs. A pity you are read less as if villian was a good reg it might change things a lot. A lot of fish don't 3 bet aq suited or 1010 at all. I also think this early a lot of people flat aq suited or 1010 a lot more then later in mtts when blinds and antes are up and this has to be factored into our thoughts.

Curious on thoughts here. If we are calling the 3bet pre with J-J what better flops are we looking for? Aside from the obvious J x x . To me it seems like we have to call and see the turn and then assess. Just seems odd to be calling pre and then getting a pretty good flop for jacks and then check folding. I could be way off here but that is the logic I have behind this.

There are opponents that I would check-jam the flop against, but I feel like I need more of a read to back up this play. I think vs. an unknown, there's a lot of factors going on in this hand that would make me sigh-fold in this particular situation. It doesn't mean I would check-fold this flop every time. Change a few of those factors and I would lean towards getting it in.

If villain in this hand had made a smaller sizing on the flop, I'm almost always peeling one and evaluating the turn. The problem with calling the flop cbet here is his sizing. We're left with less than a pot-sized bet on the turn, so I'm never check-folding to a turn jam given the pot odds I'd be getting laid. When he makes this cbet sizing, I'm making my decision now whether to play for stacks (either by check-jamming flop or checking to call off on the turn) or fold. In this particular spot, I lean towards making a tough fold. That being said, I wouldn't fault anyone for getting it in, either. I just think making a tough fold is the slightly better play given the circumstances.

Thanks all, some mixed opinions so far.

I think we can rule out calling flop to reasses turn, this is because there will be 10k in there and we have 7k behind. If its good turn for us like an offsuit 3 and he bets we are gii and will lose to QQ-AA anyway and if he checks behind he gets to realise his equity on the full board with hands we beat like AK,AQ. So there seems no benefit at all to call and reasses turn. Also he can bluff us when he holds a worse pair when an ace hits as its a great card for his range. He may even call our jam with TT,AK.

So that leaves us with call or jam flop.. I ran the numbers and vs a range of 88+,AQo+ we are 57/43 fav otf. So seems fairly punty jamming 56bb being less than 60/40 fav this early vs unknown that may check back many hands we beat like AK,AQ otf, esp with a cold caller. With this stacksize it really does seem we can 'wait for a better spot' esp when we have skill edge to protect I am a believer we can remove the lower portions of our range to remove some gamble and bring skill edge into play.

Note: Im not really buying into the sizing tells, iv seen many ppl bet this size with AK,AQ trying to appear scary. So guess we have to fold knowing sometimes we will be laying down the best hand but sometimes we will be crushed and its just too many bb's to risk

I've been in these spots numerous times. At first I was like "ah what a cooler", but then it happened again and again and I start thinking "is it a cooler, or am I just playing it wrong?". Way more times than not with JJ here with this action readless you're probably crushed and I'm slowly but surely learning to fold in these spots. But this is a bounty so this does have some effect on my decision.