PokerStars 9 Players
$1.00+$0.10

Stacks:
UTG (31.05BB) 31bb
UTG+1 Hero (54.65BB) 55bb
MP1 (69.69BB) 70bb
MP2 (51.47BB) 51bb
MP3 (36.91BB) 37bb
CO (15.51BB) 16bb
BTN (16.46BB) 16bb
SB (42.92BB) 43bb
BB (15.91BB) 16bb

Blinds: 0.5BB/1BB Ante 0.1BB

Pre-Flop: (2.4BB, 9 players) Hero is UTG+1 A J

1 fold, Hero raises to 2BB, 5 folds, SB calls 1.5BB, BB calls 1BB

Flop: A 8 4 (6.9BB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 3BB, SB calls 3BB, BB calls 3BB

Turn: 2 (15.9BB, 3)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

River: 10 (15.9BB, 3)
SB bets 10BB, BB folds, Hero calls 10BB

Final Pot: 35.9BB

Not the most interesting hand but often I am in these kind of spots on the turn vs 2+ opponents (micro MTT, you know).

Not much sample size on these two guys.
SB is 43/26/17 for 23 hands,
BB is 31/7/0 for 104 hands.

The question here is can I double barrel here vs 2 players to protect against flush draws ? I know that the flop bet could be a little bigger may be ?

What are the blinds at? 25/50? lower?


I've gotten into the habit of value cbetting 2/3 PSB minimum. I would make your bet in the 4.5-5 BB range. Fish are going to call the extra 1.5-2 BBs to chase a draw, so charge them. You're allowing them to make bigger mistakes against you.

I'll continue for same reasons. Charge a draw and worse Ax (FDs, A7-T etc.)

10 BBs would be my sizing most of the time. This will allow a shove on good rivers cards.

AP-- I'm calling the river. Only hands that I'm afraid of and crush us are sets and 2 pair hands, both of which I would expect the SB to play a bit more aggressively on a semi wet board.

I agree with crow but I'll add that I hate minraises from early position, especially in micro stakes. Make it a bit more so you thin the field and discourage speculators.

Against two villains on a flush draw flop I bet bigger on the flop, 2/3 pot is good.

Definitely fire a second bullet on the brick turn to charge draws and get value from donks calling down with worse Aces or 2nd-pair hands.

As played I call the river, he hasn't given you enough reason to be scared. Did you lose to A2 or AT?

Thanks for the input. Yeah he showed AT, even though I think the river was the only street I played okey. I posted the hand for the flop/turn play, the SD was irrelevant.

Preflop: At this stage, I am opening for about 2.5 BBs. So I would raise just a tad more preflop.

Flop: C-betting with TP is pretty standard here. In the multi-way pot with a FD board, I would definitely c-bet more. 2/3 - 3/4 pot would be a standard sizing here.

Turn: I'm ok with checking here. Many people decide to bet for protection here, but does that really protect you? The FDs will still call and you would still probably pay it off on the river, so all you did was lose a bigger pot when the flush draw actually hits.

River: that's a big bet, but since you played the hand where your range seems weak, and the BB folded, I guess you have to call. Especially a player this active.

Pregler, regarding your turn play: in higher stakes I would agree and lean towards checking but in the micro stakes there is sufficient value from weaker hands calling down to make a bet worthwhile. It is shocking how often you'll get called by hands like worse Aces, K8s, 99, TT, JJ, etc on that turn.

Ah yes, I skipped over this. I understand the reasons for 2x and 2.5x opens, especially when stacks get smaller and antes kick in, but I just don't like it. The majority of players don't care what the size of the open is, as long as it's not 5x or more. I just stick with 3x in all pos. UNLESS there is an aggro 3 bettor to my left that makes my raising range miserable. That's about the only time I go down to 2.5x opens. Against loose passives, I'll bump it to 3.5x or 4x with the top of my range.

These hands will call a river bet too. Checking the turn helps control the size of the pot to make decisions on the river easier. You stated in a previous thread that you don't like certain spots because it is complicated in post flop play. Part of simplification of post flop is keeping the pot size manageable so that the decisions are easier.

Calling this river bet is actually fairly easy, because it is 10BBs of a 50 BB stack. If however, you double barreled with a marginal hand, imagine having to call a 20 BB bet from a 45 BBs stack. Calling off almost half your stack is not an easy decision.

Also, it is a 3 way pot. One pair hands are relatively weak in multi-way pots.

I think we're just exchanging one bet for the other on the turn and river with our two approaches. On your approach checking the turn means facing a smaller river bet, while on my approach I think betting the turn reduces the chances that villain will bet the river. So it does make the postflop decisions easier in that sense. What I don't like about checking the turn here is that it is multiway and I really don't want to give two players a free card on the river and a chance to catch up.

This is micros. Is anyone ever folding a draw to bet? So your bet is not protecting anything. It is just building the pot for them in case they hit.

Also, when you check the turn, you will win more bets on the river. Why? Because many who miss the river will feel your turn check is a sign of weakness and will try to bluff you on the river. I want them to bet the river. You will induce bluffs and value bets from weaker.

It really comes down to how much is your hand worth. One pair hand is not really worth 3 post flop bets in a multi-way pot. It is worth 2 bets at the most. Therefore, if you bet the turn you should be prepared to fold to a river bet. Do you really want to fold to a river bet here? No, I would rather look weak, disguise my hand and pick off all of the bets on the river, when my opponent feels good enough to value bet JJ or to bluff when he was just floating or missed his draws.

You will learn with enough experience, that in today's game a bet/check/call line shows more profit, than bet/bet lines. With bet/bet lines, TT hands may call, but they will fold a % of the time as well. With bet/check lines TT may lead the river, or at the very least will almost always call the bet/check/bet line.

And I never said that in a vacuum, betting the turn is not profitable. Worse hands will call your bet. But this also has to be balanced with planning for the river. If you bet the turn, it limits the value of your hand. You already blasted away at or near the top limit of the value of your hand and still have one street to play.

What do you do if you get check-raised on the turn? What is your plan if raised? You have to fold.

My line gets me to showdown. Your line sets up situations where you may never see showdown and with a hand with value, and that's a horrible result.

Hmm, personally I don't really agree with this. We might not be protecting against flush draws by making them fold but this is okay, as long as they make incorrect calls right? We are charging them for the privilege to see a river and I think this is a money maker, especially against two villains. By checking behind turn and calling/betting river we miss a bet if the river blanks and Villain isn't aggro enough to bluff river.

However, the range of Villains is of course bigger than just flush draws and your other arguments for checking turn behind make a lot of sense to me. I think in the end it might be close and comes down to how aggressive etc., villains are, reads. Against randoms I think I will bet turn though, mainly because I don't like the idea to give a free river card to two opponents on a flush drawy board.

Having donks chase flush draws is exactly what I want. The point of betting isn't to get them to fold, the point is to get them to call when they're behind.

I actually love this line and use it a lot...but in heads-up pots. The multiway nature of this pot changes things dramatically. First, it makes it much less likely that either villain will bluff or bet for thin value on the river because they're facing two opponents. Second, two villains in the hand decreases the odds of my hand holding up on the river.

Getting check-raised on this turn would be a huge show of strength so it wouldn't be too difficult to fold.

If this were a heads-up pot I would most likely take your line to entice a bet on the river. But for me the extra villain in the hand tips the scales towards making earlier value bets. There are many other ways the river could have played out that would make things really uncomfortable after checking the turn (SB bets, BB calls; SB bets, BB raises; SB checks, BB bets...)