Has anyone else used these stats from the latest test build? According to the creator of HM;

* River Call Eff $,River Call Eff, and River Call Win% stats which show how much you win or lose when calling river bets. The $ is net and the % is return per $1 in calls.

I'm curious on what some solid winners are showing for these stats. I have long wondered if I was calling in too many hopeless situations.

FWIW, here are my #'s from this year;

Here is a screen shot of my river stats from this year....I call the river way too often....not sure what good numbers would be

I hope I never use HM because I would cry when I saw how awful this stat would be for me. I know it's a leak, but I can't let myself plug it because I love seeing the other person's cards sooo much, loolol

I use PT and HUD.

What is HM?

I haven't seen this stat before.

PS I would sort your other stats out first!

Rom- HM is holdem manager. An excellent new integrated hud and tracker. There is a very long thread in the software section, that explains what it is.

This may be a bit of a misleading stat. There's more than just calling involed on the river ie lets raise when we have a good hand and believe we have out opponent beat and lets fold when we miss our draws and cant beat a bluff.
So your efficiency of just calling is a bit of a strange stat, we need to look at the river as a whole and not just this.

I would however suggest that if you win at the river 30% of the time then you're not calling enough. ie most of the time when you get to the river you'll be getting better than 2-1 pot odds so in a pot where your pot odds are 5-1 you can call 20% provided that your chances of winning are 20% or better.

Your stat probably means "call more, raise more" but I think that's probably true for us all.

I'm theorising to play the river ideally your river call efficiency needs to be as close to 1 as possible to extract maximum value.(possibly just over 1 to account for rake).

Ie if your call efficiency was 1 you would have already extracted the maximum value from the hand leaving that last call needing to be as close to throretically optimal as possible. (if you still thought you have an edge you would raise if that edge were big enough)

Indeed one could suggest that your call efficiency may be able to be less than 1 for you to still be a winning player as you may have already extracted the maximum value from the hand and the slightly -ev crying call on the end maybe your loser.

There are much brighter players on this forum than me, maybe they can test my guesswork.

That's interesting topspinner...we're roughly equal.

Romulet, I'm not sure we can draw any conclusions yet from this stat. I think we need more people posting their results (over much larger samples) to really get an idea what it means.

anybody know how to calculate these stats using PT?

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any easy way to do this. If someone knows how to write a PT query, it probably could be done.

I just discovered this stat and it's really cool to find out if you're + or - ev with crying calls with high card and bottom pair hands. Quite nice to see that they are +EV when it feels like you always lose with them.