http://gyazo.com/d0c156fe189fc62b3d0321ea704cbc74.png
http://gyazo.com/239fe26789647ad1cc3f2f0aef94013c.png

just referencing hanspoker.de

good times
I was still able to forum tilt real hard, Im almost missing it

Wads told me he going to be posting his stats/graph for the years after he said he up 15k+ post rakeback. will be patiently waiting...

OK, sitting waiting for you

Hello Stars Peeps:

I've been spending the past few hours searching around here and elsewhere about the current state of Stars FL games, SN/SNE chasing, and relocation. I've been playing online for a living since well before BF, but I've finally had enough. So I'm finally considering leaving the US so that I can continue to play for a living.

Since FL is my only game of choice, Stars it must be. And while I've logged over 1mm hands since 2004, I never put in any volume on Stars. I propped on Merge from 06-10 netting $50/hr and just stayed there. Due to that experience, I'm comfortable short handed, but quite unfamiliar with your games, or how yet to navigate the VIP system.

So my question is simply this: is it still possible to grind out a living playing 2/4-5/T on Stars, if I'm willing to put in the volume - say ~60k hands per month? Over the past 300k hands on Merge/Bovada I'm solid 35/25 and just shy of 1BB/100 (higher on Brovada, obv). Assuming it would be lower on Stars. I also saw that since they changed their rake structure last year, it might be more difficult or impossible to do this anymore, unless I'm playing 5/T+.

I guess you guys don't need another f/t grinder in your games. But I thought I'd ask. And ok, a brag, before BF I was destroying the mid/higher limit games on Merge over 150k hands, but that's not saying much since somehow I ran into nearly zero sharks over a year's time. It was quite yummy. Those days are over. So I'm thinking about Rosarito Beach.

I have so many more questions, but I don't want to unload them all at once. Thanks for any insights, guys.

Hey.

You probably should expect a winrate in range of 0-0,5BB/100.
If you'll play 20% of 5/10, 30% 3/6 and 50% 2/4 for 60k hands per month, 720k hands per year my calculations says...

3-4 tables, 6,7 hours each day, 300hands per hour
~500k VPP
As a breakeven player 42,5k$.
As a 0,5BB/100 winning player 64,3k$.


And we surely don't need another grinder

what constitutes "a living" for you?

At least $3500 a month.

3,5k$ per month of course is doable, but its a grind.

u can do that, easy imo

6,7h/day.. for 365days?

For $42k/year? I'd rather work 36h/week with a 5 week paid holiday. Sure with poker you can "work whenever you wan't" but you have to remember to make some investments or put money aside for retirement.

For me to play poker for a living. I'd have to earn at least $80k a year with the same amount of work I get from my regular job. Preferably $100k+

E: Ok I have to admit $42k net might be enough since I wouldn't have to pay tax for it.

That's just a calculation for 300hands per hour and for being a B/E grinder
You can always play 6 or 8 tables and reduce numbers of hours and/or days played

yeah.. but even 0,5BB/100 is sooo low.. bring back 2005 and 2BB/100 :P

Well... Everybody has their own "profitability threshold".
Mine is even lower and I'm fine with that.

Wow About what country and work are you talking about? I will move from my eastern europe hole immediately

Multiply "alternative job" income by at least 1.5x. If poker income falls below that i wouldnt even consider it.
You have stuff like pentions, insurance, hole in CV that are all negative factors you have to consider. Also, remember that unless you still think u have a lot of potential to move up and improve the income outlook over time is likely to be worse for online poker than for normal jobs where you can excpect a certain % salary increase each year.

If you want to be real conservative you should probably use 2x as a rule even.

I only make $40k/year minus taxes but like I said I like the 5 weeks of paid leave every year. Also I have somewhat flexible work hours (go in between 7 and 10 am and can leave after 2pm.).

Anyone switched to PLO and how are they doing?

I've played a bit after some chat with the great Oink whos now a PLO boss. Its a very fun game with lots of very bad players. Oink said tons of regs are bad too, even at pretty high stakes. Problem was that i am bad as well though.

With lots of studying I think I could become decent but to become good you will just have to very intelligent, willing to put in tons of hours of studying and have a natural talent for poker and I basically just conceded that I didnt fit into that category.

There are a lot of big egos in LHE and every time someone chat **** online, like he is the greatest poker player of all time it just puts a smile on my face. LHE is such a simple game. Read 20-30 pages of the stats thread here and you'll be fine as a rakeback pro. Anyone could do that.

Most LHE regs style of play is also incredibly similar while ive seen a lot of different styles from PLO regs. Winning PLO players are truly intelligent people.

You've just destroyed all my hopes to ever become a PLO pro

I think just like in LHE if you game select well you can make up a lot of short comings in your game theory. I've played up to PLO100 and there's all kinds of bad players all the time.

oh man, this is such a ridiculous post

did oink tell you these things?

Yeah that is a bit over simplifying it.. but it has a small truth to it. There's a lot of good material to learn LHE. Good and bad books about it. Bunch of great videos on DC. Lots of strategy post and discussion here.

On PLO there are couple of decent books and most of the videos I've seen are nowhere near as good as the LHE vids I've watched. Also most of them are from way higher stakes than I can play. Though I haven't been a member to a training site for a couple of years now since I really don't play that much anymore.

just seemed to me he was confusing "mature game" with "simple game"

To be in the top x % of either LHE and PLO i bet would be about equally difficult.

Obviously.. but he might have a point for becoming a be/slightly losing rakeback pro. That's probably easier in LHE. Hard to say though.

I have to say though.. I've played quite a bit today.. and both PLO and LHE the small stakes rake is ridiculous :|

i have played lh for minimum living part time during the poker boom. cant beat the games today at lh and still working my plo. the other good news is that internet made it impossible for me to get work anymore, so i am stuck playing poker that i cant beat for living anymore. the lack of games, lh, but plo also at non .com sites, and the country blocking .com, wont make things any easier. need to move but it needs a flat, permits to stay, maybe no nationality as tax free poker and so need to play till death.