I think it's quite brilliant, driving people into ridiculously high debt even before they can really understand what they are doing, and seamlessly building this process into the system without anyone doing anything about it.
Unguarded's 7 buddies deep down in the vault must have been working real hard inventing this thing

Yes.

yep this,

other countries have had systems like this for decades, albeit with much lower tuition and much more progressive payback system (its around 5k/year in my country and u only start paying once ur earn over 44k, around 4% each year). nothing has exploded and everything is alright

more people going to university is a good thing, i cant fathom how people becoming educated would ever be a bad thing

very cool, i've always been amazed at how little we pay our teachers. nicely done canada

Because higher education isn't worth much. Getting a communications degree from a state school doesn't make you cultured or learned, and it sure has hell doesn't make you much more productive in the workplace. It would be much cheaper and dole out a hell of a lot more life experience to subsidize world travel for young adults instead.

I see a lot of people I graduated with (girls especially) going to nursing school, working in careers completely unrelated to their degrees. Yes, college did broaden their horizons a bit, and did help them get connections and friends and things. But they'd have been far better off travelling, working random jobs and joining clubs for 4-6 years instead of racking up massive debt and learning drinking games.

True, but you have to reach a balance because now everybody just uses it as a fall back.

Any degree that is not in egineering or hard science is lol.

You are ignoring the opportunity cost here.

1) you waste A LOT of time at college doing pointless crap, and you pay for it
2) in 4-6 years in one or more real entry level jobs, you can learn FAR more useful skills (work-related skills, business skills, social skills), while getting paid

If you ask employers in almost any field, 6 months of relevant experience is worth more than a degree. They might not be able to hire you because of the cultural bias towards degrees, but they'll value it more.

The 4-6 years you get paid instead of going into debt would allow you to retire what, 15-20 years earlier?

I am very surprised at the conversations regarding school and if it is "worth it" or not. If you aren't considered for positions unless you have a degree, you go get that degree, right?

College was an amazing experience and I would recommend it for everyone. Maybe it has changed in the last twenty years, but there were many positive points I got out of college...

1. No one watching over my shoulder making me go to school. Same as a job later in life.
2. Girls
3. Parties
4. The friends I have made in college are still with me to this day.
4a. Some of your friends will become very rich and open you up to some awesome opportunities.
4b. These same friends will still party with you like you did in college.
5. Concept of money--Most high school kids don't understand how to budget, or understand where money comes from. They just ask their parents for it and it appears. Most kids have to get a job to support themselves and they find out their junior year that they need a job to get a job.
6. There are many more, but these were off the top of my head.

Cliffs: College is good

This.

In College I drank some beer.

verno,

did you forget poker?

sledg is right

1. if someone spends their time at college drinking and partying intstead of learning thats their fault, not the systems
2. im sure u learn a lot of skills at jobs, but most good jobs require a degree

also i flat out don't buy the idea that u dont learn anything at uni

im not saying uni is for everyone, the world needs ditch diggers at it were. but saying we shouldn't have government programs to help anyone go if they want to is stupid


edit: perhaps ur argument has some merit in the states where its crazy expensive and u end up with a lot of debt which u need to pay back fast. but here u don't pay much to begin with, and u spend decades paying it back in small amounts with no interest rate. its not as big a burden as u think it is

ok, seems there is a big difference between countries..

In norway all the main colleges/universities are more or less free, so the student-loan only goes towards living expenses and buying school equipment.

Also, the loan itself is the best loan you will ever get. Zero interest rate until some months after you officially get a job. And the rate is almost always lower than the rate you could get on a savings account. So if you manage to save most of it it becomes a +EV loan if you pay it back quickly.

As an example:
The total loan I took up for going 5 years to get a masters degree in engineering equals a little bit more than the avg annual salary for most jobs I were looking into.

Silly Dragon, poker wasn't invented yet when Verno went to college.

That's socialism though. We don't do that unless you are a factory farm or a bank or an oil company or something.

(ducks and runs from thread)

the biggest LOL about college is that they force you to spend 2 years getting a "well rounded" education in classes that are of no interest or value to you

My alma mater's tuition jumped from $17k when I graduated in 2000 to $33k in 2011. Why should I pay $33k a year with a specific interest in engineering and be forced to take Western Civilization and Philosophy classes those first 2 years? Why can't I just get what I want when I'm paying that damn much?

Rip-off.

fyp

ofc its socialism, but I think its an awesome way for a country to invest in its own future

I obviously agree, I was ducking and running from our right and/or libertarian leaning friends...

I don't think you'll find many people here that are fans of corporate welfare

In theory, yeah, but at least in the US you just end up sending loads of kids to what is effectively day care for 4 years. And then since so many people go, degrees are diluted, and you end up needing one for entry level positions. So the kid that is smart enough for the job, but not booksmart enough to do the university song and dance gets screwed. And lots of people get screwed out of 5 years of their lives and lots of money to get a job that didn't actually require a degree.

Congrats to sledg for the new DTB gig imo

I never said you don’t learning anything or there is no value in going to college. I think everyone should attempt to get a college education. There’s certainly a lot value in gaining life experience and acquiring of knowledge. Unfortunately its a requirement to even get a second look at a job. All I was discussing was the market forces at play and cost-benefit analysis in the current environment. At some point the tuition is just too high for the value of the degree and market adjustments must happen.

And I KNEW sethy was a Socialist deep down! Well maybe not really a big surprise as evident by the single payer endorsement yesterday. That’s Socialism 101.