***** Official SSSHLHE Stats Thread *****

[GiantBuddha]

Originally Posted by Tryptamean

actually, oink i notice in your stats that WTSD drops significantly in your blind play, but your W$SD stays pretty consistent. however, in my case, WTSD only drop a couple %, while W$SD drops a little as well. I wonder if I am being a little too stubborn in places or perhaps taking initiative a little too often.

You probably play a larger percentage of HU pots, which makes your WTSD higher pretty much automatically. I also think Oink likes to play a lot of multiway pots out of the blinds and your FBBTS isn't particularly low, so maybe your hand range is a little stronger in these spots. Basically, I think preflop probably accounts for a lot of the difference in postflop stats here.

To figure out what some of these stats really mean, I think it's necessary to filter for things like number of players to the flop and break it down that way. The only problem is that the sample size may deteriorate to the point of being useless. But HU blind defense spots aren't exactly rare in today's games, so it's likely that something useful can be gleaned.

[sethypooh21]

Originally Posted by Oink

huh?

I am pretty sure you can win with 27/20 in mid stakes. Since when is it a myth that you cant? There are quite a few solid 27/20 players in my games who are certainly winning.

FWIW, I'm like 28.5/20.5 5-6 handed at 5/10 and 10/20.

[GiantBuddha]

So I took my meager 50k hands of 5 or 6 handed $5/10-$10/20 and filtered for hands where I defended my BB against a steal and there were two players on the flop. These are PT3 numbers:

3-bet pf: 17.58
WTSD: 40.83
W$SD: 53.56
WWSF: 42.39
c/r flop: 35.48
fold to flop c-bet: 31.08
fold to turn c-bet: 28.78

I'm pretty sure my fold to c-bet numbers are too high (although my game has changed drastically through this sample). This doesn't include

My overall BB stats are:

WTSD: 33.05
W$SD: 55.52
WWSF: 34.36

So that's (not surprisingly) drastically different.

[sethypooh21]

Oink, I'm surprised you fold the SB that much tbh. I have to imagine in your games 3betting only top 20-25% can't be right.

[GiantBuddha]

Originally Posted by sethypooh21

FWIW, I'm like 28.5/20.5 5-6 handed at 5/10 and 10/20.

Yeah, I'm one pip tighter than this at these limits with good enough results. Although I did just play a session at 37/26 filtered for 5-6 handed, so I don't really play 28/20 (all the time) anymore.

[GiantBuddha]

Originally Posted by sethypooh21

Oink, I'm surprised you fold the SB that much tbh. I have to imagine in your games 3betting only top 20-25% can't be right.

So I seem to be completely incapable of getting my FSBTS below 80. When a 40/12 fish opens the CO or BTN, how big of a range are you 3-betting? I feel like they have a fairly tight range and are usually pretty showdown bound, but they tend to play poorly postflop in general.

[sethypooh21]

Originally Posted by GiantBuddha

So I seem to be completely incapable of getting my FSBTS below 80. When a 40/12 fish opens the CO or BTN, how big of a range are you 3-betting? I feel like they have a fairly tight range and are usually pretty showdown bound, but they tend to play poorly postflop in general.

This last point is why thinking about just your hot and cold equity vs. their opening range is wrong. I'm hard pressed to say that I have a firm "range" against a villain of this profile, but it's more that top 12% to be sure.

[WillyT]

Originally Posted by Tryptamean

ok, not sure the best way to do this, so i just added the stats for "c/r flop" and "call flop c-bet" from PT3... then I filtered for BB and call a raise (this actually is calling any raise I guess, not just defending)...

CR Flop: 32%
Call F CB: 45%

no idea what these number are supposed to be, but assuming i'm in HU pots mostly, looks like I'm folding the flop 23% of the time or so ... which means my opponents have a profitable c-bet with any2 cards bastards!

1st, let me ask if you ever 3 bet from the BB in steal situations? well, that is in steal situations where you'll be OOP postflop?

I'd guess that you don't and working from that I'd say you're k/c'ing way too much. I'd take some of the hands you're k/c'ing with and move them to k/f or k/r until I got my k/c down to, maybe, 30%. To get to this you may want to retool some preflop guidelines as well.

I don't know if you're kidding about your opponents having a profitable c-bet with any two, but yeah, they should have a profitable bet because they have the advantage of position AND a stronger distribution of hands than you do. Sometimes when they c bet you fold and other times you don't. It's your job to take a lot of money from them the times you don't fold.

A lot of people still think about bets or bluffs or whatever as being immediately profitable and I'm amazed. There was a big thread a while back in HSNL where lots of players were arguing to open raise any two cards on the button in HU NLHE if their opponent was folding enough to make it immediately profitable. This simply isn't the case and I'll just site the old saying of 'bad money followed by good' for justification.

-Bill

[tw2238]

Originally Posted by ericishungry

What are good loss rates for the blinds at small stakes?

I'm at .16 and .12 per hand, just curious to see how my blind play is coming along.

I'm at .20 from BB and .08 SB over last 40k. Im not getting to SD enough which is why i lose lots. Its a leak that is being worked on

[Yasawa]

Originally Posted by tw2238

I'm at .20 from BB and .08 SB over last 40k. Im not getting to SD enough which is why i lose lots. Its a leak that is being worked on

-0.17 from BB
-0.09 from SB

sample size: 78K hands

But I just saw that my wtsd from BB is just 29%. (overall 37%)

[Oink]

Originally Posted by sethypooh21

Oink, I'm surprised you fold the SB that much tbh. I have to imagine in your games 3betting only top 20-25% can't be right.

Hey Seth. Havent seen you in a few days.

The stats are since last year. I have loosened up in between to about 35/25 5-6 handed and then tightened up again.

I think my fold SB to steal is about 73-74 now in 1/2 structure and a little bit less in a 2/3 structure

[Oink]

Yasawa

But I just saw that my wtsd from BB is just 29%. (overall 37%)

It is sick important that you read GiantBuddha's posts on that!!

[Oink]

Originally Posted by GiantBuddha

So I seem to be completely incapable of getting my FSBTS below 80. When a 40/12 fish opens the CO or BTN, how big of a range are you 3-betting? I feel like they have a fairly tight range and are usually pretty showdown bound, but they tend to play poorly postflop in general.

If there is another fish in the BB I coldcall quite a lot and dont 3-bet that much but like Seth I dont have a firm grasp on exactly what to play.

Hands like 55, 87s, QJo aint going to the muck but I aint 3-betting them either if there is one more 45/12 or whatever behind me.

If there is a TAG behind me I 3-bet more and dont coldcall.

In both spots you can get away from playing quite a few more hands than what PF equity dictates because you have an edge. In particular with a fish behind you I suspect you can coolcall quite a few hands profitably. I dont think T9o, A5o, Q5s, K2s, 75s, T7s is a stretch at all depending on exactly how bad and agressive BB is and how bad the opener is.

[Oink]

LOL forum fish

Fix the link!

[Yasawa]

Originally Posted by Oink

It is sick important that you read GiantBuddha's posts on that!!

I will take a look at that. Seems like I found a huge leak in my game and so this will be my next "project".

My Fold % looks very high from BB.

Fold to Flop CBet: 39.9%
Fold to Turn CBet: 36.5%
Fold to River Cbet: 32.7%


from SB its all 10 pips lower

from outside the blinds all fold to flop cbet are under 20%


Next I will take a look at some more differentiated stats like BB vs steals, BB vs non-steals, number of villains and then look at some actual hands.

This really surprises me right now because I thought I changed my game a lot lately and peel a lot of flops. Apparently this is true for all positions but the BB.