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| Small Stakes Shorthanded Discussions of small stakes short-handed poker |
06-15-2012, 06:20 PM
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#1
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,097
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Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Villain is a Tagish regular, running about 27/20 w an 11% 3-b over 1.2k hands. I feel he's relatively straightforward and probably C-bets this turn card with close to 100% of his range.
I'm not sure if I left value on the table. On one hand I'm ahead of his range, but C/R also opens me up to a lot of ugly spots.
Do you play this any differently? Turn C/R, Riv Donk, Riv C/R?
Poker Stars $2/$4 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter
Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with 9  9
Hero raises, 2 folds, BTN 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls
Flop: (7.5 SB) 3  T  6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero calls
Turn: (4.75 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero calls
River: (6.75 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN
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06-15-2012, 08:16 PM
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#2
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U52a
Posts: 8,061
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
donk river so he doesnt check behind with Ax, which is what he's usually going to have in this spot.
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06-15-2012, 09:19 PM
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#3
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U52a
Posts: 8,061
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
and if he raises your donk, fold. assuming he's straightforward.
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06-16-2012, 03:31 PM
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#4
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Posts: 257
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Are we ever capping here? I think we can assume that he's 3bing wider than 11% otb, even vs a utg open.
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06-19-2012, 02:40 PM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fighting for my right to play poker
Posts: 5,297
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitCloudkicker
donk river so he doesnt check behind with Ax, which is what he's usually going to have in this spot.
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Alternative line would be C/R flop and get value out of his UI overs. He is going to let us know in a hurry if we are behind and I think we maximize our value when ahead.
I can go either way with either line depending on villain.
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06-20-2012, 01:09 AM
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#6
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Making God facepalm.
Posts: 16,908
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by antneye
Alternative line would be C/R flop and get value out of his UI overs. He is going to let us know in a hurry if we are behind and I think we maximize our value when ahead.
I can go either way with either line depending on villain.
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Also, given the flop check/call, hero should check/raise the turn. On the turn, there's two flush draws on a pretty safe board and check/raising when the second 6 hits just looks like bs. Translation: this is the exact type of board where a tagish player is most likely to call down a turn check/raise with A-high imo and in addition the villain is never folding 77/88 here and he may not 3bet us with a better one pair hand, thus making the turn check/raise here a very nice value play.
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06-20-2012, 01:44 PM
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#7
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,097
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
Also, given the flop check/call, hero should check/raise the turn. On the turn, there's two flush draws on a pretty safe board and check/raising when the second 6 hits just looks like bs. Translation: this is the exact type of board where a tagish player is most likely to call down a turn check/raise with A-high imo and in addition the villain is never folding 77/88 here and he may not 3bet us with a better one pair hand, thus making the turn check/raise here a very nice value play.
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Idk, I think villain will probably 3-bet all his over pairs, the 6 isn't a scare card for him given where I opened from preflop. Also, even straightforward villains will 3-bet barrel bluff KhJh here sometimes, so I don't like the idea of C/R folding this on the turn. We only have about 60% equity on the turn, so its not a fist pump value spot.
FWIW, I think its probably correct to Ch/C my entire range on the flop given I'm going to be peeling a ton and he's going to be 2 barreling a ton.
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06-21-2012, 08:44 AM
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#8
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Posts: 257
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
Also, given the flop check/call, hero should check/raise the turn. On the turn, there's two flush draws on a pretty safe board and check/raising when the second 6 hits just looks like bs. Translation: this is the exact type of board where a tagish player is most likely to call down a turn check/raise with A-high imo and in addition the villain is never folding 77/88 here and he may not 3bet us with a better one pair hand, thus making the turn check/raise here a very nice value play.
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This seems most logical to me. Slide, I can see where you're coming from in that last post, but in my experience (playing a lot lower than this though) once you get an aggro rep you're going to get a lot more A hi CDs from regs who this you're FOS. What do you think you image is like vs this guy?
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06-21-2012, 07:45 PM
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#9
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,097
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliQ90
This seems most logical to me. Slide, I can see where you're coming from in that last post, but in my experience (playing a lot lower than this though) once you get an aggro rep you're going to get a lot more A hi CDs from regs who this you're FOS. What do you think you image is like vs this guy?
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My response is assuming I do get called down by a lot of ace highs if I C/R the flop &/or turn. I'm still not entirely sure if its our best play though.
If villain isn't calling us down with Ace Hi when we C/R at some point, then I think C/R actually becomes pretty bad.
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06-22-2012, 07:55 AM
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#10
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Posts: 257
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Well then, you got a WTSD stat etc for this guy? Is he showdown heavy? How does he see you? Does he like to be the aggressor when getting to SD?
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06-23-2012, 11:28 AM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,000
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
I like a raise on the turn here. Mainly because we can fold to a 3bet against a straightforward player. And because we will get calls from 88-77, A high and flush draws. Most of this range is also going to go to showdown, maybe even KQ.
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06-26-2012, 04:55 AM
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#12
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journeyman
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 217
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
I would have played this the same until the river. seeing as the river paired the board and its quite likely the villian has UI overs I would be inclined to bet the river im torn between a bet call and a bet fold. I would have bet folded but I think this is a leak in my game.
If the Turn or Rivers was a boardway or A I would fold to aggression if the villian is straight forward
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06-26-2012, 07:48 AM
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#13
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grinder
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 428
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide
Villain is a Tagish regular, running about 27/20 w an 11% 3-b over 1.2k hands. I feel he's relatively straightforward and probably C-bets this turn card with close to 100% of his range.
I'm not sure if I left value on the table. On one hand I'm ahead of his range, but C/R also opens me up to a lot of ugly spots.
Do you play this any differently? Turn C/R, Riv Donk, Riv C/R?
Poker Stars $2/$4 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter
Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with 9  9
Hero raises, 2 folds, BTN 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls
Flop: (7.5 SB) 3  T  6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero calls
Turn: (4.75 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero calls
River: (6.75 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN
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I think either bet the flop or CR the flop, you're allowing him to be aggressive but allowing a lot of cards to fall for him as well if he checks behind (any club, any J,Q,K,A within his range).
It plays out differently after that.
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06-26-2012, 07:53 AM
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#14
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Posts: 257
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
I think the river fold to a BW is pretty clear. I think playing these kinda spots ott and esp. otr are one of my biggest leaks. Luckily it hasn't come to light too much at .25/.5 but I'm struggling to move up to .5/1.
Any one got any links to good threads about turn and river play bookmarked?
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06-26-2012, 07:56 AM
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#15
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Posts: 257
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Re: Meduim Strength Hand OOP 3-b Pot
Bentley,I think we can safely assume the villain isn't going to check back any club draws. I think we can also assume that he's going to CB AT THE VERY LEAST with all his As. Therefore I don't like the donk you suggested. I think I like a x/r otf.
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