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Old 01-22-2012, 11:24 PM   #1
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Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

Hi. I'm a new one here. Here is a first hand to discuss.




    Poker Stars, $3/$6 Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11681552

    Preflop: Hero is MP with J 8
    Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls

    Flop: (7.3 SB) 6 5 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls

    Turn: (5.7 BB) 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls

    River: (9.7 BB) 5 (2 players)
    Hero bets, CO calls

    Spoiler:



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    Villain is 28/21/2.0/42 reg. My stats are 34.5/26.4/2.12/44.5.
    I raise 38% on CO, c/r flop 30%. Villain 3bets on BU 11%. Raises turn 27%. Capable of raising turn on a draw or a free showdown.
    I checked his fold to c/r on flop and turn. 19% and 40%. C-bets turn 80%. Man, I had to check it before, guess I should have c/r turn.
    Any suggestions how to play this hand perfectly on flop/turn and river.
    Was it a good idea to 3-bet turn?
    What do think of my donk on river? I guess even c/r on river was better than donk.
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    Old 01-23-2012, 01:13 AM   #2
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    i probably just peel this flop, i think if we c/r this we are too semibluff heavy.

    i'd then go ahead and c/r the turn after peeling the flop and barrel

    i dont like the river donk as villain is very showdown bound at this point after re raising your flop c/r on the turn

    welcome to the forums
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    Old 01-23-2012, 01:34 AM   #3
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arseface View Post
    i probably just peel this flop, i think if we c/r this we are too semibluff heavy.

    i'd then go ahead and c/r the turn after peeling the flop and barrel

    i dont like the river donk as villain is very showdown bound at this point after re raising your flop c/r on the turn

    welcome to the forums
    Thank you.
    What range would you c/r on flop then? Would you c/r small pairs and medium flushdraws? What about high flushdraws?
    After peeling the flop would you call the turn if there was a blank?
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    Old 01-23-2012, 04:04 PM   #4
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    I don't think c/r flop makes your range too draw heavy. You shouldn't have too many other draws to bluff with in your MP range on that flop. A few flush draws, maybe T8s..

    I think you're supposed to c/r the turn, but if you have a read that villain has only overpairs you could just call to hit.

    And it sounds spewy, but if you're gonna c/r bluff the river ever this is pretty much the hand.

    Last edited by pg_780; 01-23-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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    Old 01-23-2012, 04:16 PM   #5
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    Is this a standard MP open?
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    Old 01-23-2012, 05:32 PM   #6
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    It's a touch loose, but not too bad
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    Old 01-23-2012, 07:17 PM   #7
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    Sorry, for some reason while I posting the thread I was thinking I was on CO.
    Yes, that's too loose of a raise on MP, mistake. Not big one though, there was passive loose fish on SB.
    Man, that was a pretty loose 3bet from his side, besides of my loose image, I guess he was thinking he can overplay me on flop.
    Thank you for your answers. To summarize it, let's try to find my optimal c/r range on flop. I believe it's sixes and up for value, medium and small flushdraws, and straight draws with no s/d value, and flushdraws with a five, wrong?
    So if my play on flop was right, was it a good idea to 3bet turn, I believe I will 3bet turn with jacks and up, and so there shoud be some draws to balance it, I guess it's T8s, J10s and J8s, spades or clubs.
    How the game was played I think I will donk the river with at least A9, shall I ever bluff it, I think this is my big mistake, I bluff too many, I think there has to be one or two hands to bluff, maybe couple 108s.
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    Old 01-23-2012, 08:06 PM   #8
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    The A9s 3-bet is standard if you're a TAG-LAG
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    Old 01-24-2012, 07:42 AM   #9
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pg_780 View Post
    It's a touch loose, but not too bad
    Not too bad is the recipe for loosing when your a mediocre gamer.
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    Old 01-24-2012, 01:23 PM   #10
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thequietpotato View Post
    Not too bad is the recipe for loosing when your a mediocre gamer.
    If the CO and BTN are nitty and the BB sucks I open J8s.

    But I agree it's a small mistake most times.
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    Old 01-24-2012, 10:45 PM   #11
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    Unless you see him as exploitable to donking the river or you're donking a ton of made hands, I don't like it. 3-betting the turn is good though.

    Last edited by Leader; 01-24-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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    Old 01-25-2012, 01:27 AM   #12
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leader View Post
    Unless you see him as exploitable to donking the river or you're donking a ton of made hands, I don't like it. 3-betting the turn is good though.
    Thank you.
    What's your suggestion on the river? Let's assume as the game was played I have a range 77,88,1010, K9o+, 109s+, A5s, 98s, 108s, J8s, J10c, Q8c, Q10c, QJc; what hands shall I donk and c/r the river?
    What do you think of my flop c/r range?
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    Old 01-27-2012, 04:12 PM   #13
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    A9s is a super easy 3bet giving you are opening with hands like J8s (both plays are good preflop, giving your inputs)

    What is your CR range on this flop? Be sure you arent cring drawheavy here as ppl said.
    I agree with your thought process of exploting this guy by waiting till the turn with loads of hands, he is a clear target for this play.

    Donk river seems really bad, as you said, i would prefer CRing if you wanna bluff here (remember you dont have to fight for every pot). What represent your donk? in such a board? A5?
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    Old 01-28-2012, 06:30 AM   #14
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    Re: Flop gutshot, Turned into gutshot/flushdraw and missed

    I think I will donk the river with all flushes and A5, maybe 1010, probably one of 108s to balance the range,I agree donk with my hand is a big mistake. Thank you very much.
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