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| Small Stakes Shorthanded Discussions of small stakes short-handed poker |
07-24-2012, 10:27 PM
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#1
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newbie
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16
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Defending the Big Blind
Quick question guys
When in the big blind with a mediocre hand and facing 1 raiser (from middle position or cutoff) is it better to just call the raiser to see the flop or better to reraise? I play microstaked at .25/.50. I am winning at a rate of 6bb/100, however I am still a bit shaky on blind defense
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07-25-2012, 03:58 PM
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#2
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,101
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
We are out of position with a mediocre hand against a villain that has shown strength, reraising would be bad. We'd just be putting in more money in a situation that is unfavourable to us.
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08-01-2012, 11:58 PM
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#3
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Verifying chips
Posts: 3,628
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
A good strategy is to NEVER 3 bet from BB when heads up, regardless of PFR's position.
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08-02-2012, 01:02 AM
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#4
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grinder
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
A good strategy is to NEVER 3 bet from BB when heads up, regardless of PFR's position.
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While that strategy is simple, so its easier to implement and thus harder to make mistakes, I'm pretty sure in select situations it becomes pretty bad. For instance with QQ in the BB vs a 35% steal range and an opponent who refuses to fold the flop in three bet pots more than 20% of the time. There are situations where your opponents poor postflop decisions will make 3 betting pf a very profitable exploitive play. Although I think against better thinking players, especially ones who may be systematically able to make better decisions than you, the strategy you outlined is good and in fact may be best.
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08-02-2012, 11:23 AM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Verifying chips
Posts: 3,628
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848
While that strategy is simple, so its easier to implement and thus harder to make mistakes, I'm pretty sure in select situations it becomes pretty bad. For instance with QQ in the BB vs a 35% steal range and an opponent who refuses to fold the flop in three bet pots more than 20% of the time. There are situations where your opponents poor postflop decisions will make 3 betting pf a very profitable exploitive play. Although I think against better thinking players, especially ones who may be systematically able to make better decisions than you, the strategy you outlined is good and in fact may be best.
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The "select" situation is when opponent has very low c-bet percentage, so we can't compensate the value by check raising most of the flops.
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08-02-2012, 03:19 PM
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#6
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chiang Mai
Posts: 1,382
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848
While that strategy is simple, so its easier to implement and thus harder to make mistakes,
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You could argue it's easier to make mistakes, as it'll be pretty tough to play a lot of those a highs.
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08-02-2012, 03:20 PM
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#7
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chiang Mai
Posts: 1,382
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
The "select" situation is when opponent has very low c-bet percentage, so we can't compensate the value by check raising most of the flops.
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There is a lot more checking back flops than 2 or even 1 year ago.
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08-02-2012, 03:48 PM
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#8
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Verifying chips
Posts: 3,628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780
There is a lot more checking back flops than 2 or even 1 year ago.
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It does not contradict with what I said, right?
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08-03-2012, 06:18 AM
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#9
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grinder
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
The "select" situation is when opponent has very low c-bet percentage, so we can't compensate the value by check raising most of the flops.
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Hmmm, that's interesting.
I'm looking into this as soon as I'm back at my EV calculator.
Last edited by JudgeHoldem1848; 08-03-2012 at 06:35 AM.
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08-03-2012, 06:33 AM
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#10
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grinder
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Ok, so off the top of my head other factors would be good folding cbet to xr and yeah, you make a good point that echos something I saw in one of Bryce's vids a long time ago that didn't make much sense to me then, "weather or not I 3 bet at all depends on my opponent's tendencies post flop". Like 3 betting or folding turn i.e. villain's perception of our xr range vs his perception of our 3bet range. Good points all.
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08-03-2012, 06:46 AM
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#11
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grinder
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780
You could argue it's easier to make mistakes, as it'll be pretty tough to play a lot of those a highs.
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Analytically, removing a strategic option should make things simpler. Although with any particular hand once the decision to 3 bet or not to is made, the analysis thereafter is not simplified. So my original statement should be fallacious unless we assume that the hole cards are unknown.
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08-04-2012, 11:54 AM
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#12
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adept
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,116
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
I think there will be a big change in the future and people will start to 3-bet a lot from the big blind. It's costing just one small bet more plus the 1.5 big bets later, that latter being the problem when the flop isn't an Axx. If you just call it costs just 0.5 big bets but you need to fold much of the hands until you are willing to cr air at selected flops against selected players.
When the opponent has the lead, he has the control and you will lose then until you think you can "outplay" him post flop, that is, you know how he plays and so you have great control and will prefer just calling preflop. Other than that, just calling on the big blind when there is no need nor a reason, must be the biggest leak people in this game have.
P.S. Vs. better opponents you will prefer to take the lead preflop as they are sure to outplay you if you don't.
Last edited by 6471849653; 08-04-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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08-04-2012, 04:09 PM
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#13
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Verifying chips
Posts: 3,628
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
This whole "take lead" thing is hugely overrated.
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08-04-2012, 07:35 PM
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#14
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chiang Mai
Posts: 1,382
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
It does not contradict with what I said, right?
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No, Just that it is not so select anymore among the good players. And the never 3 bet strategy is meant to protect yourself vs these same good players.
There is probably a point where having a stronger flop c /r isn't worth the trade off of occasionally missing value.
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08-04-2012, 09:33 PM
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#15
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newbie
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
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Re: Defending the Big Blind
You underestimate the value of information you're giving away by splitting your range. Doing this you're allowing your opponents to play better against you, therefore saving bets in a lot of spots, so it's not really a trade off.
I also think it depends on how well you play with/without initiative. I for one prefer to check and call with my AKhigh rather than thinking whether or not i should valuebet it. It's just easier.
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