First of all, let's look at the two most common situations I'm talking about:

One fish limps, Hero is in SB, BB isn't raising too many hands preflop.
What's my range?

Two fish limp, Hero is in SB, BB is again not to aggro.
What's my range?


I'm writing this post because I think it's a leak I have in my game. I complete with way too many hands. It has been pointed out many times already during session reviews...

I couldn't find very much info in Leader's post on Preflop. But I would like to clear this.

i am also struggle a lot with same situation, a lot of time that i have a hand i would definately raise to isolate limper IP but in SB, it become a decision to make either raise or limp along, the main concern here is post flop, i made a post in micro asking there's two limper, i have AT, what can i do, i got different answers, some one said call and some one said raise for value, its very close

i think also depends on how comfortable you play post flop OOP in a raise pot, most tag when they raise, they are commit to C-bet any flop, but i think that's overrated, you should c-bet some flop and check some to balance. in micro or small stake limit, your FE is small, so you definately have to show down your hand to win the pot if the pot gets 4 way. so with strong hand such as TT+ AJs+ AK, you don't might to raise for pure value, and even OOP, with these hand you won't find very difficult to continues your hand. some hand good at multi way pot such as TJs, QJs, 9Ts, or 22-77, you limp a lot and hope to flop big then c/r the flop for value.

so with one fish in, you raise 77+, AT+, KT+, QJ and hopfully get HU with the fish, some implied odd hand such as 67s, 78s, 89s become less value because its good for multiway but its hard to play OOP and you might not ahead the fish's limping range.

with two fish in, still raise above range, plus limp along with some implied hand like small PP, suit connector. hopefully flop big then jam

My raising range here is a little tighter than my utg range, which is pretty much standard stox. I don't raise hands like small pp, since there is zero chance to get this pot hu.

My limping range depends on how hot i run.

One way I like to think about it is to ask myself "would I limp this on the button with the same pot odds if I were guaranteed that the blinds wouldn't raise?" If not then I fold. It makes it a lot easier to chuck J5o in the muck getting 7:1 odds.

Also, about completing with thrash hands. Tommy Angelo said something like "why do I want to put in extra money on a hand that I did not want in the first place, in the worst position?"

I dont care how brilliant TA is at a bunch of other stuff but this quote is freeking retarded and disqualifies him from any serious debate on PF strategy in LHE

Its all about the odds baby

you could give me one card in my hand with a passive BB and I'd still probably complete getting 7:1 odds

Yeah. With a passive/bad BB I would complete any2 getting 7:1 as well. With a good but tight player Id need 11:1. Key here is that limpers = fish = players who will make mistakes postflop and have loose ranges PF = RIO is not as much of an issue with hands like say K3o or Q6o = profit

id be more willing to limp with the k3o type in 6 max fwiw; less chance of domination and more likely you will be paid off by worse when you hit tpnk

At 9-1 I complete any 2 unless the BB is the type to raise a lot.
At 7-1 I follow Oink's rules basically.
At 5-1 I need somewhat of a hand and the offsuit junk/one card hands are gone.

I really have no proof that this is best, but it's just based on experience. It would be difficult to calculate when you can call with any 2 because it depends on the other players. I just can't see any hand not being profitable at 9-1, assuming you have a post-flop edge.

It's the situation where I'm getting 5:1 that I think about the most as I agree with others the 7:1+ spots are hard to mess-up given a post-flop edge. My sense is that if I'm only hoping to flop a hand that is pretty marginal and the pot is going to be so small that my best line is probably going to be to c/c a bunvh of times hoping to induce from a worse or hopeless hand than I might as well pass preflop. Obv i still play anything that can make a straight or a flush, etc.

I really think this is a major flaw to complete 100% of our range here with two limpers, even with a horrible weak big blind.

hand 1: 100%

hand 2: 100%

Would you often limp from the button? I am never quite sure what to do when there are limpers in front of me and I have some sort of hand that might play OK multiway but isn't good enough to raise.

if the blinds are loose, ie, i won't get it HU with the limper, then I limp hands like 97s, and J9o on the button.

why not, it will be 4 ways and we have position on awful players