Hrmm... It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not so why bloat the pot when you have to hit your hand?

No its not


First. You want to play your hand because you want to play hands in position vs morons. So limp or raise is better than fold, ok?

Second. Limp or fold?

- If you raise you will get it HU with nonzero probability and even win the pot outright sometimes.

- If you get the pot HU you will win UI on the flop or turn fairly often. If you dont win UI you can take free cards because you have initiative (yes they will sometimes donk)

- If you dont get the pot HU you are still in a good spot because of position. You can check the flop or the turn. You dont have to c-bet every flop. No reason to bet a QJ9 twotone flop for example.


Not raising 76s OTB vs two fish in the blinds is a terrible mistake IMO. I think that open limping is +EV, just not as much as open raising. And its not even close.

The best spot in LHE is you in a pot vs moron(s). You need to play a lot of hands preflop if you can get in that spot.

Is this for the stakes you play? or for chumps like me too playing 1/2 and 2/4? I've been doing stuff like this, and I am unsure if it is +EV enough to beat the rake playing marginal hands like that.

I think the rake needs to be rather high for folding preflop to be ok.


It cant really be said too much how important it is for you to attack the blinds when they are bad.

I will much rather play 76s OTB vs two fish than vs two strong LAG/TAGs even tho the latter will fold their blinds more often.

YOU WANT TO PLAY POTS vs BAD PLAYERS

I'd say the opposite actually. Most tagfish mindlessly barrel the turn and river with the initiative.

EDIT: dammit, didnt mean to bump this. Sorry

My God I am good

I played with a particular type of TAGFish today. He basically would wait for "solid" preflop cards and then go crazy with them regardless of what hand I could have. He took a bunch of small pots from me when I opened with weakish steal hands, he 3-bet, I completely missed the flop and folded. Then I pick up 22 in the BB, he raises preflop, a fish CCs and I call in BB. Flop comes 972r, I c/r he calls. Turn 3, I bet he raises I 3 bet he caps. River Q. I check, he bets, I raise, he calls. JJ no good. Next hand we play I open QTo in the CO he 3bets in SB. Flop KQ7r. He bets, I call. Turn 3, he bets I call. River T, he checks, I bet, he calls with 55. "Unreal" he types in chat. Yes his river call was unreal, but I don't mind the free money.

Makes me miss the great Party 10/20 games that were filled with stray loose passives and abundant TAGFishes.

So I did my first 3 bet on the turn with a gutshot today in a blind battle in an attempt to be unpredictable... villain ended up calling down with an under PP to the board when he missed his fd..... does this make me the TAGfish or him the TAGfish?

need HH, but I'm going to say that almost certainly makes him a tagfish, and possibly makes you a tagfish also (unless of course you spiked on the river, in which case you are a winning high stakes regular...)

Bad TAGs:

1. Fold their BB too much against steals.

2. Fold their BB too much HU vs the SB.

3. Don't understand the risks of overcalling postflop.

4. Don't understand the importance of relative position.

5. Play the flop using only the bet, raise, and fold buttons.

6. Think all LAGs are fish.

7. Miss lots of good river bets.

8. Make lots of bad decisions on the turn and river.

9. Think the four streets are unrelated problems.

LOL @ me retaining good information. I just read over oink's post and was thinking "wow, thats a good post, am I doing that enough?"

This is so true.

I understand what you are talking about, but can you elaborate on these 2? I'm aware they are different things.

yeah, number 5 represents two very common problems tags make (letting chronic bluffers off the hook by instaraising and immediately folding way too much equity cuz they are afraid of calling).

number 3 is weird though and i can't imagine its v important, unless i'm totally misunderstanding.

3. Suppose you are 3-handed at the river with a questionable made hand. The first player bets and the second player calls or folds. In general you can correctly call with a much weaker hand if the second player has folded. Overcalling--calling after someone else has already called--requires a much better hand because you have two players to beat and furthermore the caller is presumably not bluffing. The slight increase in pot odds from the extra call does not remotely begin to compensate for your reduced winning chances.

Less well known is this principle also applies on the flop and turn when you have a weak made hand or a draw to a weak hand. The more people who stay in the pot the worse off you are and the more inclined you should be to get out.

5. Many bad TAGs tend to play the flop as follows:

A) If no one has bet and there is no raiser to check to, then they either bet or checkfold. Nothing else is possible, especially not checkcalling.

B) If someone has bet, then it is automatically a raise-or-fold situation, especially when not last to act. It's never an option to just call and see what happens except possibly with a strong draw.

Just to be clear, I know I am exaggerating about #5. But many poor TAGs take their book-learned TAG principles way too far on the flop. Good play is more flexible.