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Old 04-16-2012, 12:23 PM   #1
grinder
 
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BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Information

Villain is a 32/23/ 3b 18% 100 hands winning regular

Hand
I am at my work as we speak, but I was thinking about this hand.

2/4

Hero is BN with KT
3 folds , Hero opens , SB 3bets , BB folds

Flop : 789

SB cbets, Hero?

Questions
In a lot of hands I played at this table, I delayed my action on the turn IP, I could choose otherwise but the action/opponents made me played in this way, alot of them for more value

1. If I choose to raise it right away in this hand vs. a thinking player, isn't it obvious that I have a lot of draws in my range?

2. I noticed that vs. some regulars they check to me OOP on the turn with showdownable hands such as Ax and PP. Is this the time to instant raise the flop with draws that have no SD value instead of the turn. Because a bet on turn is burning money and with no chance to win the pot, they think " I go to SD no matter what , but I don't want to be c/r on turn, and have SD value vs. a wide opener".

Just noticed, my K has some SD value, don't know if this change anything, I could make a lot of aces fold if I raise flop, or is this to optimistic?

Ty in advance,

Johan

Last edited by TH3CLOWN; 04-16-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:37 PM   #2
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Yes there are a lot of draws in your range, but you also could have a set, a straight. TP etc or an overpair (depending on how you handle 3!'s heads up in position typically).

I think i raise this right now on the flop and go from there. Against the described villain I am probably choosing to take my free card on the turn if I get it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:02 PM   #3
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

I think I raise the flop after the and see how the SB reacts and re-evaluate and maybe take a free card on the turn if given th opportunity
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:29 AM   #4
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

You would raise the flop with any pair, so why not a draw?
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:40 AM   #5
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

I'd call the flop cause you do have several better hands to insta bluff, the k high has a tiny bit of sd value (he'll be barreling qt, qj) and you need dome bluff raises on the turn. I'd might call/call and look for a river bluff, or call/call fold (crying call) as well.

Last edited by pg_780; 04-17-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:32 PM   #6
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

i think the overarching theme here is that how you play this hand on the flop depends on how you play your other hands
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:21 PM   #7
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Do good players raise flop ip nowadays?
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:25 PM   #8
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Looking at this again, I might want to wait for the turn and raise any card, hoping to get some fold equity. If he has UI overcards on the river, he may fold some better hands.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:18 PM   #9
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLKicksAss View Post
Do good players raise flop ip nowadays?
On the really wet boards they do.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:26 PM   #10
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Simple answer...Raise the flop.

Long, rambling answer...What is his cbet %? You mentioned you have played a lot of hands at this table, so you must have a pretty good read on this guy. He appears to be aggro and will probably cbet a very large portion of his PFR's. You didn't mention any kind of range for him out of the SB against a steal. What are those numbers? Is he a vehement defender of his blinds? Or is he passive against steals?

I like to play hands like this where I have some piece on coordinated boards fast and strong. If he 3!'s, you can call and re-evaluate the turn. You have to assign a range to his hand and then go with it. A lot of times you can raise the flop and then have a decision to make on the turn when when it is checked to you. Then you will have a tougher decision on what to do.

Finally, what does the opponent think of you? Have you been raising a lot pre, but giving up on later streets? If so, he will probably increase his aggro against you. Or have you been showing a lot of winners and playing solid? That may narrow his range down quite a bit.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:04 AM   #11
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780 View Post
On the really wet boards they do.
Why? Reg Vs reg raise the turn/river ip not the worst strategy.Also keeps your range much more balanced

Last edited by FLKicksAss; 04-21-2012 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:01 PM   #12
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Re: BN vs. SB 3-bet delay action?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLKicksAss View Post
Why? Reg Vs reg raise the turn/river ip not the worst strategy.Also keeps your range much more balanced
On the large majority of flops I wait for turn in pos. This is cause villain almost always c bets turn, so we usually get an extra small bet. And usually we won't have enough high equity bluffs compared to our value / showdownable hands on the flop.

On the really wet boards we have plenty of good draws on the flop; and if we wait for the turn we often end up with too many bluffs. (considering all our peel hands which pick up draws as well) Unlike dry boards, people b /f turn way less and they also c / c turn a fair bit--so our bluffs cost more but are less likely to succeed and we often miss a half bet with our value hands.
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