Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes Shorthanded Discussions of small stakes short-handed poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2008, 05:09 AM   #1
Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Math is the answer
Posts: 11,677
Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

I got a PM today that the old starting hand chart went kaput. So I figured I'd post up a guide for pf play I made about a year ago.

Very important note: The info is unedited from the time I created it last March. It represents a tight style that I suspect would result in stats of around 26/18. This is not an optimal style for $5/$10+ IMO. The info is meant to give a new player a solid grasp of basic pf play in all positions/situations. If you are new to limit hold'em, I'd recommend you take the information and charts here and work on your game at a small limit like $1/$2.

With that said, enjoy!

Preflop Play in Short-Handed Limit Hold’em

Hand Groupings


AA-TT/AK-AQ


These are monster hands in any 6-max game and should almost always be played with the most aggression possible pf.

88-99/AJs-ATs/AJo/KQs


These hands are very strong and should generally be raised or 3-bet pf. If it’s 3-bets cold to you, you may fold depending on the conditions.

77-66/A9s-A7s/ATo/KJs-KTs/KQo-KJo/QJs-QTs


These hands are also strong and should be raised from any position if there has not been a raise. The better of these hands can be 3-bet against overaggressive players or late position raisers. They should generally be folded for a raise coming from early position.

55-22/A6s-A2s/A9o-A2o/K9s/KTo/Q9s/QJo-QTo/JTs-J9s/JTo


These hands should generally be folded UTG and MP with the exception of A9o, A8o, K9s, KTo, and JTs, which should be raised in MP. If there's a limper, these hands should be played either for a call or a raise depending on the exact hand and the likelihood of a raise making it heads up to the flop. All these hands should be raised in opened from late position and the small blind.

K8s-K6s/K9o-K7o/Q8s/T9s-T8s/T9o/98s


These are hands that you should open from the CO, BT, and SB, but should generally fold otherwise unless both your hand is suited and there are at least two limpers.

K4s-K2s/K6o-K4o/Q7s-Q6s/Q9o-Q8o/J8s-J7s/J9o-J8o/T7s/T8o/98o/97s/87s-86s/76s


These are hands that should be opened from the BT or SB but should be folded otherwise unless both your hand is suited and there are at least two limpers.

Suited Cards


Any two suited cards can be played if there are two limpers to you in the SB or if you are in the BB and there is a raise and two callers. Most suited cards can be played with one less limper or one less caller simply avoid hands like 74s, J3s, and 83s in this situation.

Big Blind Defense


Big blind defense is critical to your success in short-handed limit hold'em. You will play more hands in the big blind then in any other position. These hands will mostly be in small pots were you will be OOP. It's critical that you play them right. You should typically defend the following hands vs. a stealer:

All pocket pairs, Axs, Axo, Kxs, K6o+, Q6s+, Q8o+, J7s+, J9o+, T7s+, T8o+, 97s+, 97o, 86s+, 87o, 75s+, 76o, 65s, 65o, 54s

Heads up versus a lone late position raiser, you should 3-bet:

77+, A9s+, ATo+, KJs+, KJo+, QJs

Against a late position stealer and one caller, you should defend all of the above and Qxs, J6s, T6s, 96s, 85s, 64s. With two callers, you should defend also defend any two suited.

If you are in the BB and a solid, passive or unknown early position player raises, you must play significantly tighter. Heads up versus this player, you should defend:

66+, Axs, A8o+, K8s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s

You should 3-bet with:

99+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs

Against an early position player and one cold caller, you should defend:

Any pocket pair, Axs, A9o+, KTo+, Q7s+, QTo, J8s, JTo, T7s+, T9o, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s

Against an early position raise and two or more callers, you should defend the above and:

A7o, 98o, 87o, any two suited

In both of the above cases, you should 3-bet the same hands as you would heads up the raiser.

Call-C/R Big Defense


When you have a hand worthy of 3-betting and are HU, you have another line you can take to deceive your opponent. You can just call pf with the intention of c/r'ing nearly every flop. If your opponent bets every flop, then you are in a nearly identical situation after c/r'ing the flop as you'd be if you were to 3-bet and lead every flop. The main purpose of this tactic is to trick your opponents hand reading ability into believing that you have a far weaker hand then you in fact have. For example:

CO raises, BT folds, SB folds, Hero calls with AhKh

Flop: Kd7s2c

Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises

If CO has KQ or KJ, he likely believes he has the best hand even after our c/r. He will likely raise again either on the flop or on the turn. If we had 3-bet pf and bet the flop, CO would likely question whether he has the best hand and may elect to call down rather then risk a punishing re-raise from Hero.

This tactic works well in some situations but poorly in others. Let's review some of the considerations.

* If your opponent is very passive or very aggressive, tend to avoid this tactic. In the case of the passive player, you are not likely to get any extra action through your deception and he may check through the flop. In the case of the over aggressive player, you are likely to get extra action anyway. Therefore, you do not want to deprive your opponent of the chance to cap a worse hand pf.

* Contrarily, the ideal player to use this tactic against is a good, but not great, tight and slightly overaggressive player. This type of player will almost always give you extra action as he will attempt to read your hand and will give you extra bets.

* It is best to use this tactic with your strongest 3-betting hands until you have a good grasp of the effects of this play on how your opponents behave.

* Similarly, it's best that you avoid this tactic until you how players will react to a flop c/r normally so that you avoid missing bets or spewing.

* You do not have to c/r every flop. You should c/r most though even if you miss. The reason is two fold. First, if you have a hand like AK that has missed the flop, your hand is often best but vulnerable. You must avoid giving cheap cards or allowing your opponent to take a free river. Second, c/r'ing when you miss mixes up your game well. You're opponent will likely be very confused by your play and will often adjust by playing looser and more passively in the future.

Note that this line of thinking also applies when you raise and are left HU with a 3-bettor. In fact, you should be more likely to just call with strong hands in this situation because a cap significantly narrows your range to a thinking opponent.

Small Blind Defense


When defending the small blind, you must be significantly tighter then in the big blind because you are not closing the action and you have less money committed to the pot.

Against a lone late position stealer, you should defend with a 3-bet the following:

66+, A8s+, A9o+, KTs+, KJo+, QJs

Against an overaggressive late position stealer, you should also 3-bet:

55, A7s, A8o, K9s, KTo

And call with:

QTs, JTs-J9s, T9s, 98s

Against a lone early position raise, you much again be tighter. You should 3-bet:

99, ATs, AJo, KQs

As long as the raiser isn't passive, you should call:

KQo and KJs

If there is one cold caller and big blind is a loose player, you should also call with any pocket pair. If big blind is not loose, there should be two cold callers.

Cold Calling


You should very rarely cold call in short handed limit hold’em. There are exceptions though. As we’re already seen, certain hands should be cold called in the small blind when an overaggressive player raises. We’ll now examine when a more typical player raises and others have cold called.

If there is a raiser and one other cold caller, you should also cold call in the small blind with:

88-77, KJs-KTs, KQo

If there are two cold callers, you should cold call:

99-22, KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs-J9s, T9s-T8s, 98s

on the button. You should add:

A9s-A8s, ATo, K9s

in the small blind. With three cold callers, you can call many more hands in the sb including:

99-22, A9s-A2s, ATo, KTs-K8s, KQo-KJo, QJs-Q9s, JTs-J9s, T9s-T8s, 98s, 87s, 76s

Blind battles


As with all heads up situations, blind battles are heavy influenced by how your opponent players and how he sees you. Because you will be out of position the whole hand, you must be careful if your opponent is aggressive. If your opponent 3-bets when you raise with a weak hand, you will very rarely win no matter what he has. Fortunately, most players are far too tight and passive in this situation. Therefore, you should raise a large range of hands until you have a read that your opponent is aggressive. You should open the following in the SB:

Any pocket pair, any Ax, Kxs, K4o+, Q5s+, Q8o+, J7s+, J9o+, T7s+, T8o+, 97s+, 98o, 86s+, 87o, 76s

When you face a raise from the small blind, you can reasonability defend almost any hand especially if small blind is an aggressive player. However, many of these hands are difficult to play post flop. Therefore, until you have a good understanding of limit hold’em you should restrict yourself to the following:

Any pocket pair, any Ax, Kxs, K4o+, Q5s+, Q6o+, J6s+, J8o, T6s+, T7o+, 96s+, 97o+, 85s+, 86o+, 75s+, 75o+, 64s+, 65o, 54s

If small blind open limps, you are in a very advantageous position. You will have position for the rest of the hand. Small blind is very likely to have a weak hand. In this situation, you should raise regardless of your cards. This may seem strange at first, but keep in mind how hard it is to win a hand when you miss the flop out of position. Your opponent will miss the flop about two-thirds of the time with unpaired cards.

Taking advantage of loose passive tables in early position


A table where most pots are limped three to five way to the flop gives you opportunities to open limping with marginal hands in early position. Specifically, you should consider limping pocket pairs, suited aces, and suited connectors through 87s.

Open limping on the button


Open limping on the button is often seen as a cardinal sin in poker strategy, but there are exceptions to almost every rule. Here the exception is when both blinds are very loose. In this case, you have little chance of stealing the blinds. With certain hands in this situation, you will benefit more from a small post flop pot in which your opponents will make bigger, more frequent post flop mistakes. Hands you should consider open limping on the button include small pocket pairs, small off-suit Aces, off-suit connectors, and medium suited and off-suit kings.

Quiz


If you can answer these questions quickly and correctly, you are well on your way to expert preflop play.

Which hands should you typically open under the gun?

Spoiler:


Which hands should you typically open in middle position?

Spoiler:


Which hands should you typically open in the cut off?

Spoiler:


Which hands should you typically open on the button?

Spoiler:


Which hands should you defend in the BB vs. an early position raiser?

Spoiler:


Which hands should you defend in the BB vs. a late position raiser?

Spoiler:


Which hands should you defend in the SB vs. a late position raiser?

Spoiler:


What are the three considerations that you must take into account when deciding which line to take in a heads up blind steal situation?

Spoiler:


When should you consider open limping?

Spoiler:


Charts
















Last edited by Leader; 02-10-2008 at 11:01 PM. Reason: one to many "I mades" in the first line. Good thing I'm a mod and can edit posts week later lol
Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 06:07 PM   #2
Sheetah
adept
 
Sheetah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,094
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Wow, awesome work!
Will study this alot.
A+++
Sheetah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 06:31 PM   #3
ProfessorBen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ProfessorBen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Meet my friend, "Tomato"
Posts: 9,856
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Those charts make me feel like a LAGtard.
ProfessorBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 07:33 PM   #4
sharpie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: taking shots at sobriety
Posts: 9,105
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Nice work. The only thing I noticed that I'd do different is tighten up abit with some of the offsuit kings, things like K7o in the CO and K4o OTB is too loose as a default IMO, especially for a newer player in a high rake game.
sharpie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 07:41 PM   #5
Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Math is the answer
Posts: 11,677
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpie View Post
Nice work. The only thing I noticed that I'd do different is tighten up abit with some of the offsuit kings, things like K7o in the CO and K4o OTB is too loose as a default IMO, especially for a newer player in a high rake game.
Yeah, I don't really do that much as a default anymore, but I'm a lot looser/more agro in early position and against raisers. Of course this is talking 10/20 and stuff which is different.
Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 09:37 PM   #6
aargh57
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 1,957
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Just a question. You say that you think 26/18 is not optimum and I know this is the general consensus. However, I've been trying to follow Stox' advice for opening, and defending and I'm still at 26ish/18ish. (I was told on my last hand review I could loosen up defending and I've tried to do that a little too.) Where do you find the extra hands to get to that 30/20 style. 4% may not seem like a lot but I just don't see those opportunities.
aargh57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 09:52 PM   #7
Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Math is the answer
Posts: 11,677
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargh57 View Post
Just a question. You say that you think 26/18 is not optimum and I know this is the general consensus. However, I've been trying to follow Stox' advice for opening, and defending and I'm still at 26ish/18ish. (I was told on my last hand review I could loosen up defending and I've tried to do that a little too.) Where do you find the extra hands to get to that 30/20 style. 4% may not seem like a lot but I just don't see those opportunities.
Well, it's harder to find those hands the lower you play. If you play 10/20+, it mostly comes from defending almost everything and iso 3-betting lags IMO. At 5/10, there's a little of that and some more stealing light because people defend less and less aggressively. Still though it's hard to say exactly. It's mostly just a lot of marginal decisions where you choose to play instead of fold. Like do you defend any two suited vs. a raise and a call in the BB? Do you defend any PP and like 87s to a raise and a call in the SB. Do you 3-bet the 40/25 guy when he raises UTG with KJo/KTo/A7o/JTs? Have you ever re-popped a BT stealer with A2s? ect. ect.
Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 05:17 AM   #8
NinaWilliams
Pooh-Bah
 
NinaWilliams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: live poker fml
Posts: 4,527
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

I open A9o and K9s UTG.
NinaWilliams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 06:05 AM   #9
HPR1978
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 236
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Hi!

Great work!
Is there a spreadsheet or a pdf for this?
Would be great...

Greets
HPR
HPR1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 10:23 AM   #10
Volkan-20
journeyman
 
Volkan-20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 224
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Awesome!

Thanks for the input
Volkan-20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 11:56 AM   #11
Apanage
veteran
 
Apanage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I┤m so far behind I think I┤m ahead
Posts: 2,414
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Leader........... I think I love you.

You said that this is a tight chart.Is it correct to assume that it is the open raise standards that stands for the tight part and that the BB and SB defense is the same as you play today if we are generally speaking.
Apanage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #12
Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Math is the answer
Posts: 11,677
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apanage View Post
Leader........... I think I love you.

You said that this is a tight chart.Is it correct to assume that it is the open raise standards that stands for the tight part and that the BB and SB defense is the same as you play today if we are generally speaking.
Well looking over them again, I'd say they're a notch tighter then I play in a lot of spots. Like blind defense, I defend Axo, Kxo, 85o, 75o among others. I would always raise an unknown limper with A7o maybe A6o/A5o in late position or if the table's tight. I open T9s and 44 UTG.
Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 07:47 PM   #13
skillgambler
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
skillgambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: POSTING IN ****TY THREAD
Posts: 11,730
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

looking over these right now and noticed some inconsistencies(sp?). will comment on that stuff soon (with pics).
skillgambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 09:36 PM   #14
skillgambler
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
skillgambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: POSTING IN ****TY THREAD
Posts: 11,730
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

k, i pimped some of the charts for easier reading.




might do rest tomorrow if i find the time.

things i noticed is some marginal stuff, like folding some 1cappers but calling with smaller connectors that could use some discussion imo.
skillgambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 10:18 PM   #15
Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Math is the answer
Posts: 11,677
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Good job, SG! People are welcome to make improvements by all means.
Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 07:32 PM   #16
StellarWind
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,324
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargh57 View Post
Just a question. You say that you think 26/18 is not optimum and I know this is the general consensus. However, I've been trying to follow Stox' advice for opening, and defending and I'm still at 26ish/18ish. (I was told on my last hand review I could loosen up defending and I've tried to do that a little too.) Where do you find the extra hands to get to that 30/20 style. 4% may not seem like a lot but I just don't see those opportunities.
Everyone needs to stop trying to be a 30/20. 30 and 20 are just numbers. Having numbers does not mean you are making good decisions preflop.

Focus instead on playing well and let the statistics take care of themselves. That means that you must analyze each preflop situation and decide what the best play is without regard for its impact on your overall statistics. It also means having a coherent overall strategy (aka style) that suits you.

Virtually all players (except total fish) are playing hands they should fold and also folding hands they should play. We are all too loose and too tight at the same time. Any leak fixed is a good thing regardless of its overall impact on your stats. Adding the wrong hands to your game in a quest to get your numbers up is very harmful.

Leader: That's a very good chart with a lot of wisdom compressed into simple form.
StellarWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 07:56 PM   #17
Dizt
stranger
 
Dizt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Linkoping Sweden
Posts: 5
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Really nice work!
Dizt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 12:10 AM   #18
normalcy
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,390
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

question for the chart:

btn w/ 1 limper... we are raising K8s+ but folding K7s-... are these hands not good to overlimp unless there are 2 limpers?
normalcy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 12:34 AM   #19
Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Math is the answer
Posts: 11,677
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by normalcy View Post
question for the chart:

btn w/ 1 limper... we are raising K8s+ but folding K7s-... are these hands not good to overlimp unless there are 2 limpers?
Being the second limper is always a pretty questionable play. At 10/20+ I'd raise K7s+ almost always. I'd often iso K6s/K5s too. If the blinds are loose, you can limp though. More often then not though a raise is going to be better then a call simply because you increase you're fold equity.
Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 02:42 AM   #20
StellarWind
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,324
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leader View Post
Being the second limper is always a pretty questionable play.
Agreed. I generally raise/fold on the Button after one limper.

Hands with showdown value need to do everything possible to eliminate the blinds. Even hands that do not have showdown value are much more likely to win by making a pair if they can reduce the field before the flop. Plus if you can get one or two players out preflop you may win postflop by betting.

Another issue is that if I limp I will often be raised by one of the blinds who has a better hand, but if I raise myself they will often just call or even fold. So though I ran into a good hand no harm was done by raising.

Finally it is great to raise someone with JTo or J8s and show it down. Makes me look like a complete donk and may even provoke my victim. The Shania value when a tight disciplined player like me does something like this outweighs any nitpicking EV argument that calling might be a tiny bit better.
StellarWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 06:02 PM   #21
6471849653
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 1,578
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Nice work; I too have a detailed and exact preflop strategy and that doesn't about differ even on details. I am not going to comment about some the details, just some fancy points I like.

The Abdul point is to have a two steps better hand than the open-raiser has when one is 3-betting (one person, and not necessarily on the BB that has the option to just cc, too). Using PokerStove one can get to the same view, and it's simple to just think about the unsuited ace and put all other hands relative to that.

The soft hands (and marginal aces) point is not to 3-bet them blindly vs. players who like to make it 4-bets (there are those too) and maybe not vs. those with clearly an over 35% went to showdown percentage. One can also get value to marginal soft (and possibly the ace) hands if there are players behind (and if there are many players behind, one should think about folding too, but that's mostly effected when one is on the 2B and the 3B open-raises). One fancy stuff is to play KQ and KJs even vs. the UTG open-raise (the book says to stick to AQ, AJs, 99, and I suppose KQs, bases on showdown poker, and I suppose there's nothing wrong with it thinking about the rake and that one might not make any money with one step weaker than those hands, but one should not autmatically fold with weaker than those hands), even if his minimum open-raise is with KQ as long as he raises many suited hands too (that might make the 3-bet too an option), and in cases not even that is necessary.

The old Mike Caro point comes in vs. late open-raises, and I prefer to have at least two extra hands that I play (by 3-betting) on the button and later. The spread of the stealer's hands is already large enough to make a non-percentage bully 3-bet a profitable play. This might also be known as a sort of a "gap" concept.

The semi blind defense is also almost an Abdul concept (he was the first to come out with a more advanced - though not perfect - preflop strategy, based on turbo holdem software), though I took it mainly from the simulations (somewhere in 2003). Especially if the BB folds often when the SB cold calls vs. a steal (if the BB could call heads up with like 77% of the hands, then it looks strange that the SB folds many "quality" hands getting reasonable odds). The option is to 3-bet more. There definitely is some room for improvement on the SB, it not being just a percentage and OOP thing, but there are these extra "percentages" too.

Open-calling on the button; I have done that too if the blinds in some rare cases were very loose. It's actually more profitable to still raise but it's by simulations. When one open-calls there is the known point that if the opponents then check to you on the flop (in an unraised pot) the chance that one has the best hand has much increased with e.g. 22, A5 (though those type of hands are exactly what I wouldn't like in too loose games, e.g. I wouldn't play even 66 when opening on the UTG, other than as an open-call or fold; as an open-raise it needs to be just right to risk playing a hand that is just a "bullet"), though the pot is smaller, so it's no exact science but an additional point the simulations are not generally programmed to see/do.

Always raising on the BB when the SB open-calls. One should stop it after a couple of times the latest (could be too late already). There are also some more reasonable standards for that and they can add the bully value in them too and raise even as weak hands as Q2 and J2s (though they are too weak if the opponent doesn't raise often. And considering some $3 rake and pumping it with nothing vs. checking on the BB and see if the SB bets the flop, and if he doesn't the pot is that much easier to pick, though the pot is smaller, and in unraised pots one has more options of how to play any hand in any situation), that could also keep things "cooler", rather than raise every time, that sure will face resistance likely sooner than later (as long as the pot is often enough folded to the SB). A strategy can be easily worked to make use of the BB's too active raising, countering it by e.g. limping high hands (and lesser and check-raise them preflop, or donk bet with little to nothing) and check-raising more on the flop, and that strategy also allows some limping with hands one might fold otherwise - this mixture is known as the Phil Gordon mixture - when opening on the SB in NLH games.

It has been a sort of interesting to see the preflop strategy of limit holdem (full ring and shorthanded) getting better and better over the years (about nine years online - and in books). There doesn't seem to be anything much to be added to it anymore, though especially some tactical points are still not clear to all, while many details are rather meaningless, just theoretically interesting. There's still way to go as there's the postflop strategy too, that's just as detailed, so limit holdem is going to be good still a long time before one needs to move to a more non-theoretical games, to big bet poker games. Though there might still be enough players who do not follow the books.
6471849653 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 08:13 PM   #22
HPR1978
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 236
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillgambler View Post
k, i pimped some of the charts for easier reading.




might do rest tomorrow if i find the time.

things i noticed is some marginal stuff, like folding some 1cappers but calling with smaller connectors that could use some discussion imo.
Did you find the tie to do the rest?
Would be great.
HPR1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 11:16 PM   #23
skillgambler
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
skillgambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: POSTING IN ****TY THREAD
Posts: 11,730
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

k, forgot about that stuff but will try to get to it
skillgambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 07:20 AM   #24
HPR1978
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 236
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillgambler View Post
k, forgot about that stuff but will try to get to it
Thanks!!!

Would be cool if you could provide the whole Excel sheet too.
HPR1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 09:38 AM   #25
JJack
adept
 
JJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hello 2+2er. I wanna play the game.
Posts: 930
Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Why we can at BB defend 76o with one cold caller and cant with two?
Is it becouse vs 2 villains our pair is still enough strong to play and vs 3 players we need only to hit str8 draw most of the time?
JJack is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online