Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
22 Small Blind /10 22 Small Blind /10

08-20-2014 , 10:48 PM
That makes sense. I saw a bone dry board that missed the PFR and think he's not going to bet very often so I want to bet it. You're saying that's wrong because I have so few hands I can credibly represent. If the board were a better fit to my range I could start reasonably bet, but this hits so few hands in any range.
08-20-2014 , 10:55 PM
Basically. Usually it takes me about 30 posts to get across the point I'm trying to make that someone else could do in about 4 elegant sentences. Because the traffic on here is so low these days I had to slog this one out on my own
08-20-2014 , 11:01 PM
Or I'm a slow learner.
08-20-2014 , 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Peste
Folding pre here is out of the question (so so bad, AND NITTY).
The post that should be generating the most discussion in this thread is this one.
08-20-2014 , 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnerMan
The post that should be generating the most discussion in this thread is this one.
If I had to guess I'd say calling 22 preflop in this spot is approximately breakeven but I am a nit.
08-20-2014 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by efficacy
If I had to guess I'd say calling 22 preflop in this spot is approximately breakeven but I am a nit.
I'm by no definition a nit and I was thinking the same thing. Especially after people started so vigorously defending donking because they're so worried about dry flops checking around.
08-20-2014 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnerMan
The post that should be generating the most discussion in this thread is this one.
We need to call 1.5 bets and we can probably assume that our call prices BB in with nearly ATC. That's like 5:1 or better? I assume that La Peste was using poetic licence, but maybe others didn't. It isn't really a controversial call, because you are getting the implied odds you need like always. It can't be wrong to call. I don't know why you fold.

Quote:
I'm by no definition a nit and I was thinking the same thing.
I can see both you and DosXX snap folding this... no, I just can't.
08-20-2014 , 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL
We need to call 1.5 bets and we can probably assume that our call prices BB in with nearly ATC. That's like 5:1 or better? I assume that La Peste was using poetic licence, but maybe others didn't. It isn't really a controversial call, because you are getting the implied odds you need like always. It can't be wrong to call. I don't know why you fold.
I spelled out the math for you in an earlier post.

I never said I fold, I said that calling a fold terrible and nitty is simply incorrect.
08-20-2014 , 11:38 PM
6.5:1.5. Basically 4:1 with rake.

I dont think the part RunnerMan was objecting to was the calling part. It was the classifying it as "so, so bad" part.

Last edited by ZOMG_RIGGED!; 08-20-2014 at 11:38 PM. Reason: I'm a slow pony
08-20-2014 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!
6.5:1.5. Basically 4:1 with rake.

I dont think the part RunnerMan was objecting to was the calling part. It was the classifying it as "so, so bad" part.
This.
08-20-2014 , 11:47 PM
It's a pretty **** spot, if someone told me they folded here I wouldn't mind it.
08-20-2014 , 11:53 PM
Also I believe La Peste may have thought OP was in BB, because OP said something about being BB in his post.
08-20-2014 , 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!
People keep trying to call this a drawy board but its simply not. Almost all draws are going to be big spades for us in the SB. When I said "people dont donk draws" I didnt mean spade draws.
It's hard to tell what you mean when I can only see what you type.

And why can't we have a spade draw in the SB? Or are you saying we shouldn't donk that either?
08-21-2014 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill
It's hard to tell what you mean when I can only see what you type.
so it's some how my fault you're not a better mind reader?

Quote:
And why can't we have a spade draw in the SB?
Damn, I was hoping that once I was finally able to express myself clear enough that Doug understood the point I was trying to make that it would also work on other people.
08-21-2014 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL
That makes sense. I saw a bone dry board that missed the PFR and think he's not going to bet very often so I want to bet it. You're saying that's wrong because I have so few hands I can credibly represent. If the board were a better fit to my range I could start reasonably bet, but this hits so few hands in any range.
eh, I didnt mention it earlier since we're dealing with unknowns but c/r also leaves us creative options we can use on occasion if MP or CO are regs and we've identified holes in their game. If CO is the kind of player to who bets too much when checked to you could c/r with an ace to try and clear out a better ace from MP or just get him to fold big cards when he's faced with two cold. If MP cbets too much looking for free cards but isnt overly showdown bound and CO folds you can c/r with stuff like JT or QdTd. Stuff you wouldnt want to do against unknowns or too often even against reg's but there are going to be times you can take down pots by identifying spots like this and the right flop textures. None of which are available to you if you're donking. You steal a few extra pot, and if you get caught its the kind of stuff players take note of and tend to remember even if you're only doing it once every 1000 hands and you end up getting lighter call downs in the future.
08-21-2014 , 07:41 AM
*please note: not trying to comment at on what hands we should be cc'ing with in the SB. Just trying to think of at least semi reasonable hands we could have to keep pf action the same*

or if we know CO bets too much when checked to we could c/r something like A2s or 33 since basically getting anyone to fold atc would be a victory and we could plausibly get the hand heads up with an opponent who's range is large

Occasionally in the perfect setup you'd even pull off the combo valuebet/bluff. you could c/r CO with A2s who bets too much and put BB in a really ****ty spot if he has 33 or 44

Last edited by ZOMG_RIGGED!; 08-21-2014 at 07:47 AM.
08-21-2014 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!
so it's some how my fault you're not a better mind reader?
Maybe I just need a better mind to read.

Quote:
Damn, I was hoping that once I was finally able to express myself clear enough that Doug understood the point I was trying to make that it would also work on other people.
You mean when you said:
Quote:
There simply arent enough credible medium draws for us to have on a board like this to be repping anything but an incredibly strong range when we donk.
But wait, you can't donk only when you have a "credible medium draw", right? Don't you also have to sometimes donk with a crappy draw, FOR BALANCE??!?
08-21-2014 , 01:47 PM
typo? or am I just getting trolled unexpectedly?

Quote:
Don't you also have to sometimes donk with a crappy draw, FOR BALANCE??!?
Um, no? basically the opposite of what I said. When I said "people dont donk draws", as I've already tried to clarify, I was meaning medium or crappy draws. I never recommended donking them, I've said the opposite several times. If you cant donk your weaker draws and made hands your range is polarized between big made hands and big draws, neither of which cares about how much money goes in and is a fairly easy range for good players in position to play against. It also removes all those hands from your range when you do c/r. Any time I've used the word balanced was to describe why not to donk since we shouldnt be donking our weaker hands but thy can easily be included in a balanced c/r strategy

      
m