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Originally Posted by chezlaw
Ok we're on the same playing field now which is good. I want to see those defending Voter ID explaining why it doesn't in fact discriminate and/or why it is does achieve the legitimate aim of combating fraud.
Would you agree that there is no reason to defend against discrimination if the law is combating fraud and there has been no proof of significant widespread negative effects that many other laws have proven to have? There have been links to studies and articles that guess that x number of people don't have IDs, but none have come up with a number of people who can't vote but otherwise would if they had an ID.
Minimum wage is a great example of a law that has discriminatory results that are way more significant than that of voter ID laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
I'm certainly no expert on the american voting system but so far the evidence and arguments presented in various politics threads has been very strongly against voter ID.
Have you noticed that almost all political threads on 2+2 seem to favor a more liberal line of thinking. Don't quote me on this but I think for every conservative here we have 7-8 liberals.
Liberals ITT have been hammering how there has been no evidence of voter fraud that would be fixed by voter ID laws. I show them an example and the refuse to acknowledge it. There whole argument is that people that are pro-voter ID are racist because the law doesn't fix a solution and is just to hurt a race. BOOM there goes that argument. Now do we want to sit down and talk about what laws are racist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
I get (and generally agree) with the argument that we don't need an actual problem to manifest before we take reasonable steps to make the system more robust. But when we believe that attempt at making the system more robust may not be very effective and comes with a social (or financial) cost - in this case that it discriminates racially (among other things) - then the onus shifts to either find a way to do it which doesn't discriminate
All, or nearly all, laws discriminate racially.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
seek evidence that the problem of voter fraud is significant in practice.
If there was a country where women were treated as 2nd class citizens and they were beaten or killed if they were raped, but there wasn't evidence of widespread rape would you agree those countries should NOT have rape laws since there is no evidence of rape being a frequent crime? (hint: Just because people aren't caught for a crime doesn't mean it isn't happening.)