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Old 02-03-2017, 12:05 PM   #1
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Voter ID and claims of fraud

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
I don't care to get into a debate in this thread litigating the individual points of that which I'm sure you fundamentally disagree with (I recall your performance in the voter ID thread and I'm sure you think the justice system is colorblind and I'm awful for suggesting it's not), but you asked what I think and why so there it is.
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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Increasing barriers to vote doesn't seriously effect the AA population. I am asking about AA as a whole so try not to focus on 20-25 (or whatever this number is) African Americans who want to vote but can't because they don't have an ID.

Just like voter ID laws, people mis-quoting crime statistics, isn't a big deal when looking at the bigger picture on how to best help African Americans. I think most African Americans would rather have a job than have someone they have never met mis-quote a crime stat or someone else they have never met who wouldn't vote can all of a sudden can vote.
Bahbah still doubting voter ID laws affect black americans? Amazing.

Last edited by chezlaw; 02-03-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:11 PM   #2
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Bahbah still doubting voter ID laws affect black americans? Amazing.
Libruls still being racist in thinking that blacks are too stupid to get a piece of ID? Amazing.



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Old 02-03-2017, 12:25 PM   #3
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Re: President Trump

lol at that video. should be pretty easy to realize that selective responses and a selective city make it completely meaningless.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:28 PM   #4
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Re: President Trump

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Libruls still being racist in thinking that blacks are too stupid to get a piece of ID? Amazing.
This is a blatant lie about what liberals believe. Black people can get IDs, but getting an ID is a pain and often costs money because you have to retrieve documents. It's an impediment to voting that does nothing to prevent voter fraud. And many states made it more difficult to get IDs at the same time they passed the law.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:35 PM   #5
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Re: President Trump

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lol at that video. should be pretty easy to realize that selective responses and a selective city make it completely meaningless.
So you do think that in general, black people are too dumb to get ID's?
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:40 PM   #6
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Re: President Trump

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So you do think that in general, black people are too dumb to get ID's?
You're just going to keep repeating this stupid straw man, aren't you?

Do you believe black people are less intelligent than white people? I don't. Let's hear your views.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:42 PM   #7
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Re: President Trump

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Bahbah still doubting voter ID laws affect black americans? Amazing.
Show me where I said this? It definitely hurts some black Americans. I just believe it is way way fewer than we are lead to believe.

Also, what year will liberals stop considering voter ID laws racist? The reasoning now (as I understand it) is that it is believed to be racist because it used to be hard for African American to get an ID. Surely this reasoning isn't going to be around in 10-20 years, right?
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:44 PM   #8
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
lol at that video. should be pretty easy to realize that selective responses and a selective city make it completely meaningless.
I am sure the producers of that video used selective people in selective cities in the same way the producers of videos and articles saying voter ID laws are racist use selective people in selective cities.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:46 PM   #9
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Show me where I said this? It definitely hurts some black Americans. I just believe it is way way fewer than we are lead to believe.

Also, what year will liberals stop considering voter ID laws racist? The reasoning now (as I understand it) is that it is believed to be racist because it used to be hard for African American to get an ID. Surely this reasoning isn't going to be around in 10-20 years, right?
No one would care if there were not a disparate effect. States could get rid of the disparity by making it a lot easier to get IDs and expanding service to poor and rural areas. Some states have done the opposite.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:50 PM   #10
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Re: President Trump

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This is a blatant lie about what liberals believe. Black people can get IDs, but getting an ID is a pain and often costs money because you have to retrieve documents. It's an impediment to voting that does nothing to prevent voter fraud. And many states made it more difficult to get IDs at the same time they passed the law.
The fact that a majority of people have to travel to a poll station to vote is also an impediment to vote. There are typically costs associated w/ going to vote (gas money, bus fare, time off work, paying someone to watch the kids, etc).

Do you think we should also do away with polling stations and hire people to go door-to-door asking people to vote to less that burden? Or are you okay with some hurdles to vote and not okay w/ others. Where is that line?
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:51 PM   #11
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Re: President Trump

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No one would care if there were not a disparate effect. States could get rid of the disparity by making it a lot easier to get IDs and expanding service to poor and rural areas. Some states have done the opposite.
In your opinoin what percent of laws don't have disparate effect?

Seriously, I am really curious to what people that make the argument you just made think is the answer to this question.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:51 PM   #12
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by Love Sosa View Post
So you do think
It's a good rule of thumb to follow that any post beginning with these words is about to lie about what you believe, and should be ignored.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:59 PM   #13
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
The fact that a majority of people have to travel to a poll station to vote is also an impediment to vote. There are typically costs associated w/ going to vote (gas money, bus fare, time off work, paying someone to watch the kids, etc).

Do you think we should also do away with polling stations and hire people to go door-to-door asking people to vote to less that burden? Or are you okay with some hurdles to vote and not okay w/ others. Where is that line?
That would be great. It's too expensive, though.

Voter ID laws COST money and prevent zero fraud.

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
In your opinoin what percent of laws don't have disparate effect?

Seriously, I am really curious to what people that make the argument you just made think is the answer to this question.
I'm sure all laws have disparate effect. WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULDN'T MAKE USELESS LAWS THAT DO NOTHING BUT NEGATIVELY IMPACT PEOPLE.
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:01 PM   #14
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Re: President Trump

13ball REALLY likes black people, everyone.
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:20 PM   #15
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Re: President Trump

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I'm sure all laws have disparate effect. WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULDN'T MAKE USELESS LAWS THAT DO NOTHING BUT NEGATIVELY IMPACT PEOPLE.
So if you believe every law has disparate effect why did you bother bringing it up?

Who is to decide if a law is worthless or not? I personally believe minimum wage laws are worthless and all they do is negatively hurt the lower and middle class - and therefore hurt African Americans more.
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #16
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Re: President Trump

For those who believe voter fraud doesn't exist:

http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...o-investigate/

BTW, there isn't anyone here who thinks the # of African Americans who want to vote but can't because of ID laws is greater than the number of cases of voter fraud, right?
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:30 PM   #17
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
So if you believe every law has disparate effect why did you bother bringing it up?

Who is to decide if a law is worthless or not? I personally believe minimum wage laws are worthless and all they do is negatively hurt the lower and middle class - and therefore hurt African Americans more.
This is brilliant. I don't know why we didn't hit on this sooner. Someone really interested could show (1) minimum wage causes increased unemployment among those just below the minimum; (2) that disproportionately effects (affects?) African Americans; (3) therefore, minimum wages are racist and unconstitutional.

I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, but the chain could undoubtedly be proved, given the leftist assumption that disproportionate impact shows racism.
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:49 PM   #18
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
So if you believe every law has disparate effect why did you bother bringing it up?
Because the disparate effect is WHY these laws were passed in the first place. Why would states make it harder to get an ID after passing a voter ID law? Why would states cut back on early voting? And why would they cut the specific early voting days that had the highest African-American turnout? It's all part of a cynical strategy to increase margins for Republican candidates. There is no other explanation.

Quote:
Who is to decide if a law is worthless or not? I personally believe minimum wage laws are worthless and all they do is negatively hurt the lower and middle class - and therefore hurt African Americans more.
We can do this based on the facts. There is virtually zero in-person voter fraud. There is zero evidence to illustrate the need for these laws, especially consider the disparate impact.

I'm not a big fan of minimum wage laws, but some people gain an advantage because of them. And there is plenty of evidence of companies exploiting labor by paying too little. You may disagree with what the laws do, but they actually do something.
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:56 PM   #19
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
For those who believe voter fraud doesn't exist:

http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...o-investigate/

BTW, there isn't anyone here who thinks the # of African Americans who want to vote but can't because of ID laws is greater than the number of cases of voter fraud, right?
Most of the "noncitizens voting" stories are junk, but even if it were all true--THAT's A VOTER REGISTRATION ISSUE. Noncitizens can get IDs, so voter ID laws won't stop them from voting.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:04 PM   #20
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Re: President Trump

Am I being naive, or is it really easy to get an ID? Not a driver license, but just a run of the mill personal identification card. Pretty sure you just go to the DMV or go online and fill out form, right?

And isn't an ID used for basically everything in nowadays? How does someone function in society without being able to produce an ID?

ie. cigarettes, alcohol, weed (some states. the smart ones), opening a bank account, applying for welfare, apply for medicade, social security, a job, rent/buy a house, drive/buy/rent a car, get on an airplane, purchase a gun, rent a hotel room, get a hunting license, get in a casino, pick up a presciption, even to buy certain cold medicine.

I think an ID is needed just to get through life but, I guess it's just my white privilege talking.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:08 PM   #21
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Re: President Trump

$20 dollar copays are pretty easy to pay for when you go to the doctor, yet it keeps people from going.

ID laws aren't racist, but they do have an effect on the poor people, which disproportionately affect minorities, to address a problem that doesn't seem to exist.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:45 PM   #22
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post

Increasing barriers to vote doesn't seriously effect the AA population. I am asking about AA as a whole so try not to focus on 20-25 (or whatever this number is) African Americans who want to vote but can't because they don't have an ID.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Show me where I said this? It definitely hurts some black Americans. I just believe it is way way fewer than we are lead to believe.

Also, what year will liberals stop considering voter ID laws racist? The reasoning now (as I understand it) is that it is believed to be racist because it used to be hard for African American to get an ID. Surely this reasoning isn't going to be around in 10-20 years, right?
It's like you don't even read your own posts. Or did you mean a different group when you said AA?

The conservatives who wrote the voter ID laws said they were racist why should liberals stop agreeing with them?
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:49 PM   #23
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
For those who believe voter fraud doesn't exist:

http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...o-investigate/

BTW, there isn't anyone here who thinks the # of African Americans who want to vote but can't because of ID laws is greater than the number of cases of voter fraud, right?
FAKE NEWS!
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:53 PM   #24
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by 13ball View Post
Because the disparate effect is WHY these laws were passed in the first place. Why would states make it harder to get an ID after passing a voter ID law? Why would states cut back on early voting? And why would they cut the specific early voting days that had the highest African-American turnout? It's all part of a cynical strategy to increase margins for Republican candidates. There is no other explanation.
I am sure some repubs like voter ID laws because it increases their chances of winning an election in the same way dems like welfare expansion and raising MW to increase their chances of winning an election. The sheer number of people negatively affected by a raise in MW is insanely larger than that of voter ID laws AINEC.

Also, I have posted 3-4 links on about 7-8 occasions with articles where politicians are quoted as saying they support increases in MW to negatively hurt minorities. So your argument can be made against MW laws too, but for some reason I think you are okay over looking that the logic that makes some laws bad are okay for other laws.

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Originally Posted by 13ball View Post
We can do this based on the facts. There is virtually zero in-person voter fraud. There is zero evidence to illustrate the need for these laws, especially consider the disparate impact.
The number of time voter fraud occurs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of people who want to vote but can't because of an voter ID law.


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Originally Posted by 13ball View Post
I'm not a big fan of minimum wage laws, but some people gain an advantage because of them. And there is plenty of evidence of companies exploiting labor by paying too little. You may disagree with what the laws do, but they actually do something.
The negative consequences of MW far outweigh the good it provides for a small group of people.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:56 PM   #25
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by Gustafson26 View Post
Am I being naive, or is it really easy to get an ID? Not a driver license, but just a run of the mill personal identification card. Pretty sure you just go to the DMV or go online and fill out form, right?
It's sometimes a pain to get an ID. Locations have been shut down and hours cut back. In addition, you may need documents that have been lost or stolen. It's a significant barrier for some people.

Quote:
And isn't an ID used for basically everything in nowadays? How does someone function in society without being able to produce an ID?
No.

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ie. cigarettes, alcohol, weed (some states. the smart ones), opening a bank account, applying for welfare, apply for medicade, social security, a job, rent/buy a house, drive/buy/rent a car, get on an airplane, purchase a gun, rent a hotel room, get a hunting license, get in a casino, pick up a presciption, even to buy certain cold medicine.
Most of these things you don't need an ID for, or there are other forms of identification that can be used. Getting a job, for example: SS card + school ID. Expired IDs are fine as well, but not for voting in some states. You can even fly without an ID, but you have to fill out a form and undergo questioning.

Some states allow some alternative forms of ID. I wonder why more forms of ID are not accepted for voting purposes. Hmmm.

Quote:
I think an ID is needed just to get through life but, I guess it's just my white privilege talking.
Most likely it's the fact that you have an ID and you assume that people without ID are just denied. Also, maybe you are younger. I almost never get carded buying alcohol and never when picking up prescriptions
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