You are simply making this up. There is no evidence for significant in-person voter fraud--and people have been looking for decades now.

The difference here is that voting is a civil right. And the evidence that Voter ID laws are useless is much more clear.

I think you need a birth certificate and maybe another document to get an ID.

The liberal thought is that the people in this super small % of the population that can't do the stuff you list above and can't really function in our society really want to vote on the stuff they can't participate in.

Yeah, so are the stories of people who can't get an ID that want to vote.

As I've said 3 times already some of the people who voted for MW laws did them to hurt minorities too. Stop making this argument with out addressing my point that if voter ID laws are racist so are MW laws.

What documents would be needed that couldn't be produced, or a pain to retrieve again if lost or stolen? Like a birth certificate/social security card? Those are pretty damn important to have too if that's what you're referring to. Just because something is an inconvenience to someone, isn't really an excuse. It's not impossible, just seems like it may not be a priority for some people.

I don't have proof that there is 100x more voter fraud than instances of people wanting to vote who don't have an ID, but it seems insane to me that someone could not believe this to be true.

You can look up estimates of registered voters without IDs. Even the smallest estimates are orders of magnitude greater than any in-person fraud cases found.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0b7f42478b2d

I'm sure mickey will totally rethink his position now that the foundation he thought people would be insane not to believe has turned to not just be false, but wrong by several orders of magnitude.

Right, mickey?

^^LOL

who gives a **** about minimum wage bahbah? No one is arguing about it, not even you, you were talking about voter ID and then you hop to MW for no reason.

Chez if Bahbah is going to make such ****ing stupid arguments could you make this a triangle thread please?

Just because 600k don't have a federal ID doesn't mean they can't get one and it doesn't mean they want to vote.

I care about MW. You, and many before you, have said voter ID laws are racist because some of the politicians who like it do so because it hurts minorities. If they truly are racist I want to end voter ID laws and MW.

In your "logic" of deciding what makes a law racist what is the difference between MW & voter ID?

This is what's known as a "goalpost shift" and mickey, it's how we know that you are completely dishonest in your views.

Before you knew that 600,000 registered voters didn't have the ID Texas mandates they have in order to vote, the idea that the occurrence of voter fraud dwarfs the number of people who don't have ID was super important to you.

But when someone educated you on that being false, you didn't recalibrate your views, you just recalibrated the reasons why you believe the same thing you already believed before. Now it's not important whatsoever that hundreds of thousands of people don't have that ID, the important thing is that they could get a new one if they wanted (spoiler alert: that's also not always the case, but there's no point in going down that road with you because you've proven you don't really give a **** about the truth).

The only thing you truly believe in is never changing your beliefs, even when presented with evidence that the reasons why you believe those things are totally false. Tell us, mickey, why should any of us bother trying to teach a total waste of time like you?

well in this very thread ppl were expressing skepticism that large amounts of ppl were able to exist in society without such identification. so now that that has been debunked, we have shifted to arguing that these ppl are easily able to get proper id, but they just dont.

HiFive!

but ya, you said it better than me

Every state, for a period of one year, should offer to give out FREE voter ID cards at select locations all around the state as long as the person can prove they are a US citizen and not a felon. If someone can't manage to stop and pick one up in 365 days that is their bad and they should have to purchase one. And if one needs reissued due to it being lost, then have a phone # to call to verify some personal info (all their info would be there) and to make a $20 reissue fee.

MW and Voter ID are orthogonal. The racism of Voter ID has nothing to do with the racism of MW.

Conservatives don't want to make it easy to vote or they wouldn't have started with the voter ID laws.

These laws do disproportionately affect black voters and are a more or less open Republican strategy to reduce Democrat votes. Looking at all of the information, I do not see any other interpretation for this. The facts are the facts.

ya but republicans dont want to make it easy for ppl to vote. thats the whole point of this. republicans would fight this tooth and nail.

Just one more thought I posted in the other thread that should be added here:

You say it's fake news, but just because some Harvard researchers questioned the methodology doesn't make the underlying facts wrong. Maybe the breadth is narrower than surmised. We need to drill down.

I never shifted any goalposts. I was always focused on the number of people who want to vote, but can not due to not being able to get an ID. That article is just talking about people w/o an ID. It doesn't mention if these people want to vote or if they are able to get an ID if they want.

Most of the liberals ITT would argue your proposed law is racist since it qualifies under both standards of if a law is racist:

1) does it disproportionately hurt one race
2) is thee someone out there that supports the law because of #1

Since some races are poorer than other races they will have less access to IDs should they lose theirs.

MW laws do disproportionately affect black voters and are a more or less open Dem strategy to increase Democrat votes. Looking at all of the information, I do not see any other interpretation for this. The facts are the facts.

Listen, I know I sound like broken record, but every time a liberal spouts off that x, y or z is racist because it does a, b & c then I am also going to ask if m, n and o are also racist since they are also do a, b & c.