But I'm not going to engage you further since you are arguing about a video you haven't even watched.

I'll grant that the cycle of abuse exists exactly how you think it does and that I don't understand it. I still doubt the reliability of the diagnosis of a complex social dynamic based on a few seconds of muted video clip, especially a dynamic which figures to be highly endemic (to cultures and individuals) in it's manifestation. See the Anna Karenina principle i.e "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Clearly there is a problem. The dude cold clocked his fiance in an elevator. But we simply don't know enough to justify passing judgment in the manner which it has been. That she married the guy should not be automatically contextualized in terms of abuse just because we know they have some level of problem.

He abused her in that elevator. Normal men don't go around losing their temper to the point they knock the woman they're arguing with out. That is abusive. His treating her like a rag doll afterwards is also indicative of a cold indifference.

But if you want to say we can't pass judgement on him as a wife-beater (or fiancé beater, I suppose) then so be it. I can acquiesce to that. But then I must ask what your
"And then she married him" line was supposed to be? A dig at her for staying with a guy who mike-tysoned her? A dig at her for being a "gold digger"? What was the point of that statement?

Alright, well if true then that's at least consistent. But honestly, for real for real, I'm struggling to believe that if she spit at him, and he responded by hitting her and walking off, that you'd be cool with it.

I'm also having an especially difficult time believing you'd be so focused on his walking away as a means to deescalate as opposed to him hitting her immediately beforehand.

But maybe I'm just off base with this.

Right, but Gizmo...how is hitting him immediately beforehand glossed over by you while her walking away is italicized and emphasized? You see what I'm getting at here?

Regardless of who spits who..... the correct reaction after someone spits at you is to walk away and leave the relationship because what kind of mature adults, especially two in the kind of relationship that would lead to marriage, spit on each other?! I have trouble picturing any scenario where I'm in a relationship with someone where either of us are spitting on each other.

If one person does something that leads to you to think the appropriate reaction is to spit on that person - then this is not a good relationship and you two are not good for each other.

That might be reasonable to most, but perhaps not to those who would hang around even after getting knocked out after a sucker punch.

Abusers are masters at manipulation.

How were you trying to contextualize it with:

How else to read that but

"Yeah, that sounds bad, but it couldn't have been that bad because

I mean, maybe you are not sexist or blaming the victim, but you posted exactly what a sexist, victim-blamer would post.

So if my wife comes home after a hard day at work and has a couple drinks and then I say something that annoys her and she spits on me...I should get a divorce?

I understand that spitting on someone is a really terrible and immature thing to do, but this seems ridiculous. People make mistakes and overreact.

**** your disclaimer, it's because you're an attention starved pile of steaming rancid dog crap. Shocking the rape apologist wants to ignore the other stuff and try and make this conversation about what the women did wrong. Because that's what matters here, finding a teachable moment so you can mainsplain to women how not to get beat up by people they love.

as trite as that sounds, I can't help but even laugh at your question. Because... what are the odds that happens? Is your wife the kind of person to get drunk and spit on you? I've known my wife for nearly 20 years and she's never spit on anyone. Its not part of her character. And if she was spitting on me (or others) early on in our dating relationship I don't think it would have lead to where we are today.

I suppose if my wife spit on me now it might not be an auto divorce, but I have a pretty reasonable expectation that neither of us, drunk or sober, would ever spit on each other or anyone.

kurto getting awfully judgy about spitting culture. Damn salivaist.

Something's seriously wrong with your marriage, and yes you are probably in a relationship that would benefit from a divorce.

This anti-victim shaming that goes on just doesn't sit right with me. Regardless of how manipulative said abuser is, women in this world are adults, and in society we hold adults responsible for their actions. Staying in an abusive relationship because you are copendent and can't leave is not an excuse. I do feel bad for the abuse that they have to suffer, but even children are taught not to mix in with the bad crowd; you are then guilty by association.

That being said Ray Rice is obviously scummy.

Again, this comes from people who just don't understand how domestic violence works - the manipulation, intimidation, the cycle. For instance leaving a violent relationship is exceedingly dangerous and can result in their murder. In fact, of the women killed by their abusive partners, 75% of those killed are killed when they attempt to leave.

She's fully standing by him, got married subsequently and issued a statement. In fact, I'd be more than willing to bet most of my net worth she is now submissive to him and is fully under his thumb.

Women will flock to the alpha male with ethics and morals taking a sideline to attraction, because she'd rather be beaten by a man she respects and is attracted to, than worshipped by one she doesn't and isn't.

Wow. No wonder I do so well. I am so chock full of ethics and morals that I don't even need to hit women.

Are you illiterate stupid or just regular stupid?

You're disgusting.

No, but that's the whole ****ing point. You are saying I should make a decision based on ONE data point. It's absurd.

I know I'm supposed to tee off on the PUA stuff, and that's certainly laughable and all, but what I really find fascinating about this post is the fact that it was edited. Like, presumably you cared enough to go back and make a few changes to what must have been an even more mangled post. Then you reviewed your work, said to yourself "Yes, this is how my thoughts should be articulated," and hit the send button.

To make it clear, I fully believe hitting a woman has disgusting, deplorable and not something I have ever done or will ever do, nor do I wish to defend it. Nor am I trying to suggest living a life without morals or ethics is defendable or something I do either.

I am trying to explain why she won't leave him, because as countless studies show , women often do not leave abusive or violent relationships.

1st post was admiring how good the punch was

So you're going to go with "women like being beaten"?