He's right about 1 thing, I am absolutely, furious about the entire hating on the confederate flag episode.

Allowing Muslim immigration is not a problem by itself, I am for a controlled immigration with vetting of documented immigrants, something like Canada or the US was proposing in reasonable numbers. If that doesn't work, help them in the affected regions.

This is not our reality though. Instead we have had a generous welfare system for anyone who has been able to claim asylum including paperless people. 70% of asylum seekers have been granted asylum and often got a straight road to their own apartment + welfare. Shadow societies and crime rates kept growing while the word was spreading that Sweden is the most generous destination especially for those with dubious asylum claims.

This lead to Sweden receiving disproportionate amount of asylum seekers from nations without strong claims, other than Syrians we received by far the largest proportion of Afghanistanis, Eritreans and Ethiopians in EU.

The aftermath of this speaks for itself. We have gone from similar crime rates as Norway and New Zealand to more than double as many and they are concentrated to areas of dense immigration. Malmö our third largest city has about the same amount of shootings as Kopenhagen, Oslo and Helsinki put together. Rape crimes have soared, but are absurdly blamed on citizens reporting them more often.

The truth is that our police are on their knees and only recently came out with a statement that they are will de-prioritize 'petty crime' like burglary and robberies for more serious crimes. The amount of solved crimes has collapsed from about 21% to 13% in like 6 years.

Where I tie regressive leftists like yourself into this collapse is the obfuscating and demonizing of anyone proposing more sustainable long term policies, America is not the same as Sweden, but the people who made it happen have used the same ugly methods as you do to silence opposition.

It is like Liberalism without looking at the whole picture. Every dollar spent at Sweden for actual refugees dangerously fleeing from Turkey and north Africa would have been done so much more good as direct help to the wore torn regions.

Our policies have given refugees an incentive to attempt these dangerous journeys from mostly safe countries leading to thousands of deaths. That kind of policy is not humane.

In a decade or 2, when "integration" fails, and more terrorist attacks happen, white people / host countries will be blamed for not integrating Islamists "well enough". Just like they pointed the finger at cartoonists for drawing Muhammad cartoons and inciting "hatred". The Charlie Hebdo sega was probably the lowest moral point of virtue signalling lefties.

Meanwhile, 11 million Mexican illegals live in the US, a new president elect threatening to deport all of them and build a wall, and I don't see 1 act of terrorism from them. Not 1.

^Yep.
And this doesn't tell the full story either, because there are plenty of non-Muslim areas around Sweden whose crime rates haven't changed, so if you're getting a doubling overall (likely far more with the way they cover things up in Sweden), the burden on the people living near these areas is enormous. They've basically gone from a lovely, peaceful, safe country to one that's not terribly different to the Muslim-group-rape-squares of Egypt. A place where you can grow up in peace to one where their 12yo daughter is 100% lock to be hit on by adult Muslim men 50+ times by the time she's 13, and and maybe 50% likely to be raped by the time she's 15. You even have the government warning females not to go out at night in areas near migrants, where just a decade ago the streets were safe.

Sadly, this is reality. My heart really goes out to the lovely Swedes who had no say in importing this.

Oh Wil, go punch a child in the face *******.

It's not a coincidence you and your people all argue the same way. You, LG, fly, all idiots, all spout the same crap. When called out, you change the subject to an attack on the person who calls you out.

You are a **** up, kerowo. Your opinions aren't respected and your sense of judgment is awful. You were a god-awful mod in a forum that didn't need moderation. You're a fool in every way. You should truly be embarrassed.

Well, Mr. "racial discrimination doesn't exist in America anymore" has soiled his panties over discrimination on an online poker forum.

Just let the irony of his post sink in for a while.

Oh it exists. It is just not the reason for anything. If you're having a bad time, it's because you suck, and not because you're discriminated against.

There's no irony. Concerns are nested fractally. That's just how life is.

People on this forum complain about fewer callbacks for African American job seekers, while black children in Africa are dying of horrible, easily preventable diseases right this minute.

Just let the irony of that sink for a while.

lol.

You still don't get it.

I think nearly all American liberals would agree with you on these criticisms of Sweden's policies.

That doesn't mean that people like Toothsayer and Wil are anywhere close to being right. Their views on Islam are virtually indistinguishable from those of Anders Brevik.

Agree with all this.

This is just Trump-level lying. American liberals are exactly like Swedish liberals on these topics, who want to keep importing and hiding the problems. You're acting like Marn can't read the lying and obfuscation and bigotry and realty denial of the left in this thread...

What the hell does wil have to do with this? He barely discusses Islam. As for me, I have harsher views than Hitler on Islam and milder views than Churchill.

Of course I'm right. I'm right about everything. Wtf is wrong with you?

I haven't actually cared about anything Breivik wrote, wasn't he just making up some unheard of ideology like 'knights templars' that nobody knows anything about? Is there something more I should know or are you just using his name to smear wil and Tooth?

Another ad hominem that is SOP in politics.

Then we have this little exchange.

So we actually have posters here calling the people like Mason, David and Matt misanthropic racists.

JBrochu already ate a ban from Mason for calling him one.

If this isn't throwing down gauntlet I don't know what is.

But fly isn't a typical liberal, he hasn't replied yet but I doubt he would agree with a word I have said.

I am expecting another rant from him calling me a nazi and my mom an alcoholic who couldn't stay off the bottle before giving birth to me.

It's not new. As I've pointed out before MM etc would be treated to a hail of abuse if they posted anonymously in P. Then they would probably get banned if they didn't leave.

The irony shouldn't be lost that 2+2 are so tolerant of a group who are so intolerant of them. That this group somehow think of themselves as better people is funny and the fact we have to allow that this group still count as liberals is just a bit sad.

Liberals are generally nice ... well nice as humans go. The small group who dominate here are not remotely typical of liberals even though they still count as liberals.

Left is different from liberal but plenty of us on the left are nice as well.

**** I hate the word 'nice'.

Huh? Marm said this:

This is what the US does now, so I have no idea what your point is.

Wil's opinions on Islam are as ignorant and whacked out as yours and Anders.

(Look Wil, daddy's defending you!)

Being Anti-Muslim is probably the defining characteristic of Brevik's ideology. And, yes, the rise of right wing extremism is relevant here, not only because it results in a body count of its own, but because it inflames tensions everywhere.

I'm not going to speak for Fly, but I think you are confusing his extreme style with extreme views.

'Nice' can often be a deceptive weasel word that doesn't necessarily indicate anything morally upright about the person who's "being nice" (see. Minnesota Nice). 'Kind' is a far more straightforward and honest descriptor.

One can even threaten violence with the term "be nice." In other words saying, be nice (or I won't be.) Probably a weird Canadian thing.

'Kind' is better but it's not complete. I think an element of 'generosity' matters as well. Looking for the good in people and their arguments rather than (or at least as well as) the bad. Magninimity, even-handedness and humility. That sort of stuff.

The US can't vet Syrians. That's a myth. Other countries, sure. I've said that small numbers of Muslims are ok. As long as local populations remain small and can't become self sufficiently Islamic (Islamic schools, preachers, shops, etc), they're forced to integrate and they stay more moderate as a result

What opinion precisely is "whacked out"? That 50% of them believe in death for adultery? That 80% of them hold the misogynist view that the wife must always obey the husband? That their uncontrolled immigration has caused enormous problems in Europe with crime and rape? That Islam is a misogynist religion, at its core? That many of them view infidel women as fair game for raping, because of the Koran?

Be specific. Or perhaps two can play at that game:

"Your opinions on Islam are as whacked out as a Nazi apologist's are on Nazism".

And Churchill's. And Jefferson's. And Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

That you mention Brevik and not all the other noble people strongly against Islam means you're dishonestly trying to slur by association. How many anti-Islam people are mass murderers, compare to pro-Islam people? You want to do a body count?
What about blaming Muslims for inflaming tensions? All other cultures and religions have zero problems coming into Western countries. No civilians were run over by a truck driving Sikh, for example. No Jews bombed the Boston Marathons. It wasn't Romas who flew planes into buildings. It wasn't Buddhist immigrants who got on a train and hacked 15 people with an axe shouting "Allahu Ackbar!"

Jews aren't going around raping women in huge packs in their immigrant countries, as Muslims do, with the same cultural habits and view of women and practices they have in the Middle East. When are you going to look at basic facts and admit that, hey, maybe, just maybe, at least a tiny fraction of the problem is Muslims themselves.

You're an apologist and obfuscator for this stuff. You're a vile person.