!!! Petition to bring back ToothSayer - Page 8 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Why the **** is this even up for debate?

Anyway who didn't ban him earlier or is still insisting he should still have the privilege of spilling his bile here should feel ashamed of themselves.

01-18-2017 , 08:22 PM

#177

leavesofliberty

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Unsubbed

01-18-2017 , 08:39 PM

#178

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

lol, wil still thinks the "I can't be a bigot, I'm Korean!" line is gonna work. Has anyone ever bought that bull****?

I've never really claimed this. When people start talking about white supremacy I think the person's race is relevant. TS isn't white. Calling him a white supremacist is questionable.

01-18-2017 , 08:40 PM

#179

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Why the **** is this even up for debate?

Anyway who didn't ban him earlier or is still insisting he should still have the privilege of spilling his bile here should feel ashamed of themselves.

Who the **** are you again?

01-18-2017 , 08:42 PM

#180

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

I've never really claimed this. When people start talking about white supremacy I think the person's race is relevant. TS isn't white. Calling him a white supremacist is questionable.

As questionable as punching a child in the head?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Who the **** are you again?

Someone who knows more about modding than you.

01-18-2017 , 08:43 PM

#181

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Why the **** is this even up for debate?

Anyway who didn't ban him earlier or is still insisting he should still have the privilege of spilling his bile here should feel ashamed of themselves.

Don't try to project your issues onto normal people.

01-18-2017 , 08:45 PM

#182

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

You are not a psychologist.

01-18-2017 , 08:47 PM

#183

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Who the **** are you again?

I was gonna say the same thing!

01-18-2017 , 08:48 PM

#184

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

You are not original or interesting

01-18-2017 , 08:50 PM

#185

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

As questionable as punching a child in the head?

Someone who knows more about modding than you.

Yes, and it seems the same in your case.

01-18-2017 , 08:51 PM

#186

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

I only addressed the question of whether he held views that could be reasonably described as "white supremacist", not the question of whether he should be banned for them.

But yes, I suppose I am afraid, or at least lack confidence in the idea that views I consider to be correct will win out over views I consider to be both wrong and actively harmful. I'm not sure there's any real reason to have so much faith in humanity :P I also struggle with the idea that allowing overly racist (or sexist, or etc.) views will discourage minority group members from participating in the forum. I think I'm more sympathetic to the abstract goal of free and open inquiry than many main-Politics forum posters, which is why I post in this forum frequently, but there are obviously costs to allowing speech that will be perceived as overtly hateful by many people, and I think there must be some reasonable limit on what can be tolerated in the interest of open discussion.

What basis do you have for questioning the number of minorities that post in this forum compared to others? Is this just a wild guess?

01-18-2017 , 08:52 PM

#187

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

You are not a psychologist.

You are not a MOD.

01-18-2017 , 08:55 PM

#188

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

OK smart guy

01-18-2017 , 08:59 PM

#189

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

There's a fairly reasonable argument that TS' views are similar if not indistinguishable from the views of avowed white supremacists. For example (and note that I'm snipping posts for brevity. Click through for context)

On European Supremacy / Support for White Nationalism

Demonization of Muslims

Negative stereotypes of blacks, Jews, etc.

Support for "scientific" racism based on genetics

Note: these are from a thread specifically about race and crime. The implication is that a genetic predisposition towards crime among African Americans shouldn't be dismissed. TS tends to demur towards explanations based in alleged "cultural problems" while hinting at the genetic explanation in posts like this:

It's meaningful that for TS explanations of racial inequality are always either cultural deficiencies or genetic deficiencies. It should also be noted that basing a belief in the superiority of whites or Europeans in "culture" is no less racist. It's not racist to recognize the role of culture in the formation of societies and the construction of various social problems, but it is racist to essentialize and reify culture in the over-generalized and unsupported way that TS does, while ignoring the very real and well-supported facts of historical racism, discrimination, and oppression. "Cultural racism" is still racism.

In any case, the purpose of pulling all these quotes together is to show the very clear pattern. For TS, European Christians are exalted, the one true force for good and civilization in the world. Muslims, Jews, blacks, and others are all defective in various ways. The failures of Europeans should be overlooked in favor of their historical accomplishments while the failures of people belonging to other groups demonstrate the defectiveness of those groups. Allegations of racism against non-white groups are reflexively denied. White Nationalism is a justified reaction against the malignant forces of non-European cultural defects. The pattern of beliefs apparent in TS' posting is very much a pattern of asserted white supremacy, despite his hedging comments here and there.

(note: h/t to 5ive's thread for much of this)

I'd have to say I either agree or am intrigued by each of his points except for the genetic differences. If he was actually a white supremacist, then his arguments would be laughable easy to dismiss.

For some reason, all the brain power in this forum can't do that. Why? Either you guys are really bad at arguing or he may have an actual point. His arguments making you uncomfortable doesn't mean they are incorrect.

We now live in a feelings based society though ,so maybe that line of thought actually carries weight now. Personally, I'm more interested in truth.

01-18-2017 , 09:01 PM

#190

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

I'd have to say I either agree or am intrigued by each of his points except for the genetic differences.

That's because you are a white supremacist.

01-18-2017 , 09:01 PM

#191

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

OK smart guy

You really do ruin everything you touch. You were an awful mod, you screw up every thread you post in and everyone dislikes you. You aren't even humorous. What good do you provide to this website?

01-18-2017 , 09:02 PM

#192

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

That's because you are a white supremacist.

I couldn't have come up with a better example of your failures in logic than your own statement above. Thank you.

01-18-2017 , 09:06 PM

#193

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13ball

I finally put wil on ignore, and let me tell you it is much better than I thought it could ever be.

I could only wish others could follow suit. If kerowo and fly and 5ive could do the same we could all be happy.

13ball is doing me a huge favor here and he doesn't realize it. Lol.

01-18-2017 , 09:19 PM

#194

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

You are not a psychologist.

Actually I am. In fact, I have done an analysis of you based on your reponses.

01-18-2017 , 09:27 PM

#195

Paul D

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 14,689

End the pet project @ Mat Sklansky. This is as good as Chezland will ever get.

01-18-2017 , 09:29 PM

#196

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

You really do ruin everything you touch. You were an awful mod, you screw up every thread you post in and everyone dislikes you. You aren't even humorous. What good do you provide to this website?

I'm funnier than you. I'm less harmful to children's heads than you. I view this website as something special worth working for instead of a place to **** on like you. And I delete spam that I come across.

01-18-2017 , 09:30 PM

#197

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

It's meaningful that for TS explanations of racial inequality are always either cultural deficiencies or genetic deficiencies. It should also be noted that basing a belief in the superiority of whites or Europeans in "culture" is no less racist. It's not racist to recognize the role of culture in the formation of societies and the construction of various social problems, but it is racist to essentialize and reify culture in the over-generalized and unsupported way that TS does, while ignoring the very real and well-supported facts of historical racism, discrimination, and oppression. "Cultural racism" is still racism.

You have quite a bit of explaining to do about this paragraph. Before we continue, let us be clear - are are all cultures equal or not? If so, then why do we see such differences in groups of generally the same genetic makeup but different cultures? If not, then what are examples of a superior culture vs an inferior one?

It's an extremely difficult line of questioning but you are the one who made the claim.

01-18-2017 , 09:34 PM

#198

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,897

Quote:

Originally Posted by markksman

Lolol

This is the same logic as to people in jail saying they are there because of a parole violation. No they are there because they committed a crime/infraction and then were afforded an opportunity at a less severe punishment that was entirely conditional.

Whomever could have probably just as easily banned him back when and been done with it but it certainly seems like conditions were then put place.

How many times does he get to "accidentally" post in violation of his conditioned to continue posting here?

As long as the parties involved understood what was expected and what the consequences were not sure why any of it matters.
Again though we are all pretty much guessing so this whole discussion seems fruitless.

I think Mat would do the exile in the software if necessary.

As you say though, we are all pretty much guessing and afaik TS isn't even asking to come back

01-18-2017 , 09:34 PM

#199

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

You are the furthest thing from funny. Your attempts at humor remind me of an awkward 13 year old boy trying too hard to fit in. I'd bet quite a bit of money my children turn out better than yours. I don't **** on this website at all, in fact I believe I care more about it than you do. And if you did delete spam at this point you should delete your own posts, as they are worthless drivel.