I'm confident an alertness test could be created if it hasn't already that would be much more reliable than the bac, which as I've already mentioned is based on averages. That is to say, there are plenty of people who shouldn't be driving at 0.04, and others who could outperform them at 0.08.

One of the first criticisms of the alertness test I can think of is that it may not measure alertness while driving, but instead alertness after being pulled over by a cop, which would rise a bit I imagine.

Interesting, there's can be quite a lot of pressure for the driver to just have one or two on a night out so if valid this should be publicised more. I've always avoided it because I feel very sleepy.

This is a real long winded, SMP special, way to try and justify the fact you are a selfish ******* who wants to drive around drunk

I like it when people think outside of their poorly constructed boxes.

Do you consider any measurable BAC as drunk driving? If not, where do you draw the "reasonable amount" line?

Now just need to have Foldn talk about circus music and the SMP "play acting" will be complete.

Don't get me started on angry driving. You might want to think about that.

BAC isnt perfect, but .08 seems somewhat reasonable to me as a starting point. I think a sliding scale for penalties based on how impaired the driver is and based on how much it impairs judgment seems reasonable.

I don't think the ******* on the internet humblebragging about how he's a habitual drunk driver and how qualified he is to figure out how fit he is to drive after drinking is humming along at low level BAC every time he drunk drives.

What's really wanted is an objective "competence for this journey test" but the rules have to be practical as well as optimal.

Hard to tell how much your jerking people around here but we shouldn't do the drink driving thing even if we allow your argument. We get tired, angry, ill etc as well and our ability to judge these things is poor. If you drink drive regularly then you will also be regularly driving when you've had a few drinks AND are tired or angry or have a cold etc etc

Yeah. Driving drunk is bad. I'll stick to my guns though that the drive home on Sat afternoon after pokering all night is more dangerous than any of my guilty (possibly over the limit) treks have been, since college anyway when we used to role joints and "country cruise."

For those of you genuinely concerned about the roadways of greater St. Louis, fear not, I am an excellent driver. One of the safest on the road today. I used to be more typical, but after working driving a straight truck for a couple years, I became much better.

Everyone should have tons of respect of big rig* drivers' capabilities. They look down on us "four wheelers" in more ways than one. When you're operating a large 80,000 lb truck, you have to think differently about driving, in particular stopping. You always watch traffic a mile ahead to make sure it's flowing and are constantly aware of your escape routes and try not to drive next to others for longer than necessary.

I've continued this approach ever since, and will non-humbly brag I am a better driver than most. That said, I still speed too much, talk on the phone, adjust the radio, and more often than I should, drive after a few beers. You can be certain though I am very careful about it!

*The law is particularly stringent on them, for obvious reasons. One is not allowed to even carry alcohol unopened in the cab of a big rig, and they monitor driving hours closely in logbooks in order to insure a proper sleeping schedule.

Lots of things are worse. That's not relevant except when choosing between things.

We have to hope that the way some regulars here post doesn't reflect their emotional state in real life - if so they probably shouldn't be driving at all. Driverless cars will be a big step forward.

lol Chez.

The butthurt is so strong in you.

Christ Chez, stop apologizing for SMP.

My butt is fine thank you.

You might need to get your butt detector checked out. I don't think we have to worry about it impacting on your driving though.

I'd never apologise for those ****ers.

Being a chronic insomniac I'm more than read to accept that tiredness can be worse than hovering just over the drink limit.

That's why when I'm on one of my 24 hour sleepless sessions I don't drive.

I don't decide that it must therefore be okay for me to have an extra beer.

Cool that clears it up and it is an intuitively plausible approach towards sentencing. I'm not using plausible as a backhanded compliment fwiw I just need to consider the practical implications. Two people throw punches in similar situations, in one case the person punched falls badly and bangs their head, if they die we charge the defendants differently. Would you distinguish between the crimes?

Yeah also reasonable.

Yeah okay this also makes sense but I suspect involuntary manslaughter would also have to go?

One thing that does concern me with failing to distinguish between the driver that causes death and the one that doesn't is that causing death drunk driving is a very low probability offence. I'm pulling numbers out of my ass but I expect that a drunk driver causes death in something less than .1% of cases. If sentencing for drunk driving reflects the ev of harm caused (within appropriate constraints as per above) then I don't know justice is seen to be done in those cases where death is caused. I'm kind of going round in circles here because I generally agree that peoples desire for retribution shouldn't figure too heavily in sentencing.

Totally agree and I think you are right in the vast majority of non violent criminal cases.

Ok was curious because in another forum people were calling someone a drunk driver when I calculated his likely BAC as under .08 percent based on what he told us.

I wasn't really aware until then that in many cultures driving with even small amounts of alcohol in your system is severely frowned upon. A lot of places have legal limits set at .02 percent or less.

I'm considering lowering my personal threshold to .05 percent max based on the data I posted earlier about crashes.

Arizona might have the toughest laws in the US. In addition to having a standard .08 BAC legal limit, you can also be charged with DUI if you are "impaired to the slightest degree". I'm not sure how much of a deterrent it is since I doubt most people know about it.

That sounds like a good idea. I'm guessing you're planning to count your drinks and calculate your expected BAC from your weight and the time between drinks? That's what I do. Just remember it's pretty imprecise, and depends on your metabolism, how much you've eaten, hydration, etc. I think you can also buy breathalizers that work okay. You could also devise some sort of alertness test for yourself that you could use even when you aren't drinking

Yeah, that's pretty much what I already do. But I'm going to reduce my intake so my max BAC is estimated to be less than .05 percent instead of .08 percent.

(The great majority of the time if I'm driving I only have 2 pints anyway, which puts me less than .04 percent according to the calculators. I have 3 beers on tap in my dining room if I want to drink more.)

Progressive liberals seem incapable of stating the obvious truth: that we who are well off should be willing to share more of what we have with poor people not for the poor people's sake but for our own; i.e., we should share what we have in order to become less narrow and frightened and lonely and self-centered people - DFW


"Accelerating the Pace of Achieving Social Justice" is not a country- but a worldwide mission. And while I so far passionately hated Merkel (german Kanzlerin, aka president), I have to admit that she currently is the one who doesn't want to set a limit for refugees that we can take up per year. One million per year was asked for by other politicans already, but our usually rhetorically and positionally challanged Kanzlerin might even "save" more refugees than Hitler killed jews, within few years.

Now we just have to get the strongest non-EU countries to wake the **** up, and than we can maybe even generate global social awareness. I am actually optimistic regarding this.
Since global warming will hit the southern states of the USA within this century to force ralization on 'mericans by making them become refugees themselves, when having to move all rednecks to the Yukon in Canada... Adjusting to a Death Valley all over the south and west will not be easily managble, considering that water-supplies are already getting tight in many areas of the US...

If the USA would be more open for refugees, it'd likely have a way bigger impact on the ROW's attitude regarding this, than it does when the german grandchildren of mostly Nazis have the current cutting edge...

Sounds like a good plan. I think after the amount of flack I'm getting in here, I'll do the same.

:thumbs up: