well, ****.

This is exactly the same as your silly rage argument above. So, slightly rephrased:

And I don't care what the idiots of the world believe. There are no examples that would make them believe racism still exists because they start from the premise of 'racism doesn't exist and things are so much better for the black person than they were 50 years ago'. If you refuse to use any argument that doesn't convince an idiot - you're part of the problem. Because its effectively you saying you won't make any argument.

I have mixed feelings about Jane Elliot. While I think she has good intentions, her reasoning was very different than what I was raised with and taught. The idea of recognizing and acknowledging our differences in race and culture conflicted against my own beliefs of dismissing our differences and concentrating on what makes us similar.

I'm still conflicted about her message.

Before I looked slightly to the left, I would have guessed that mongidig's account would be less than 3 months old and have at most 50 posts. I guess we all have biases.

You're taking a tangential counterpoint I said in response to chezlaw and applying it to our thing. Specifically:

Regardless, who is the audience then? To whom is Stewart speaking?

I'll say it again: I'm talking about Stewart and the specific platform he had, not Joe Blow. I encourage Joe to say and/or do anything.

jjshabado,

Lol, oops, somehow I missed your first reply... I might have to reframe everything.

I dont know but probably a fair bit wider than it's obvious target audience.

[QUOTE=Pipedreamer101;50758181]This is arguably the most ridiculous thing said/posted in this thread...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

It's not!

In theory, people should be able to look and dress any way they want. In reality, if dressing a certain way makes you a target, then you should change the way you dress if you value your safety. It's sad , but true. Unfortunately, a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of you. Anybody walking around in a hoodie might look suspicious.

It would be in advisable to put antlers on your head and walk around in the woods during elk hunting season...So!

Putting antlers on your head doesn't make you an elk, and wearing a hoodie doesn't make you suspicious.

[QUOTE=mongidig;50776599] Itt we learn that Mongidig thinks all those rape victims were deserving.

You shouldn't dress that way if you don't want a dickin girls!

What scummy ****ing views.

Race and culture aren't bad things that need to be ignored. What she's talking about in that clip is the way society "treats" black citizens.

You've been taught to "ignore" or "dismiss" the differences as though they are bad things and that you should like those people IN SPITE of their color or whatever the difference is. It's a backwards way to look at it. You really have to be intellectually honest with yourself to get all the way there.

I'm a racist. I don't want to be. I do everything I think I can to not be, but I've been taught wrong my whole life. I can fairly say that I'm one of the least racist people I know, but I'm still a racist. My initial thoughts when presented with situations or scenarios are not the thoughts that I can logically lead myself to. It's not automatic yet and I fear it never will be. But acknowledging that I have a problem and that it exists is the only way I'll ever be better about it.

Sorry, this is simply incorrect. In general, we make assumptions based on how people are dressed.

No, I do not believe our differences are "bad". I just believe they are different. Some cultural attitudes are better or worse towards certain topics, but I don't dismiss them as automatically bad at all.

I think this is pretty sad, truthfully. You don't sound like a racist and it seems you don't act like one. I don't see why you think of yourself as a racist unless you keep catching yourself thinking racist thoughts. If you automatically assume you are racist because you are White, I don't know how to respond.

I don't believe I'm a racist. I treat people fairly and equally, at least, I believe I do. But, I'm not White, so it's possible we simply look at things completely differently.

If im white do i need to stop wearing a hoodie because sometimes i wear one....

It depends on the reactions you get. We are obviously talking about it being pulled up. If you pulled it up and don't like the way you are treated, maybe you should consider not wearing it.

There are women who don't like to wear makeup, yet we have seen time and time again that people react better to women that do. It is their choice, and I'm totally fine with their choice, but them complaining about how people respond differently to that choice isn't really valid.

I went to a training seminar yesterday. The attire is usually business casual but sometimes people under dress at these courses (jeans and a polo/golf shirt). One older White gentleman showed up in sneakers, basketball shorts and a Nike workout type shirt. I immediately thought he was a low class scumbag for dressing like that in a professional setting. I have no real reason to think of him in that light, but I did. Appearance matters.

Sometimes when its cold i pull it up. No reactions yet. Wonder if the whiteness has something to do with it.

Not for me in my hoodie. Lucky im white.

Ok, uh, this makes more sense now.

I agree, but what I wanted to convey was a nebulous anecdote isn't an affirmative example. Obviously this is subjective.


Yeah when I said 'rage' I meant like 'righteously indignant' as opposed to rustled jimmies. So 'rage' was probably a poor choice. But I want the jimmies rustled and I don't think that particular anecdote gets the job done; too much room for hand-waving.

I don't think they're trivial, that's the point. That's why I thought you were referencing something else, that they did a hidden camera expose thing. There's a difference between an event being trivial and an anecdote about that event being trivial, if that makes any sense.

Here's the transcript:

Quick story. So we live in New York City, a liberal bastion. (scattered audience cheering) Let me finish. (audience laughter) Recently, we sent a correspondent and a producer to a building in this liberal bastion, where we were going to tape an interview. The producer — white — dressed in what can only be described as homeless elf attire, and a pretty strong 5-o'clock-from-the-previous-week shadow, strode confidently into the building preceding our humble correspondent — a gentleman of color — dressed resplendently in a tailored suit. Who do you think was stopped? Let me give you a hint: the black guy.

And that **** happens all the time. All the time. Race is there, and it is a constant. You're tired of hearing about it? Imagine how ****ing exhausting it is living it.

Like, what kind of building, and who stopped him, and for what? It's weak storytelling imo but, eh, maybe I'm crazy and it does work.

Here's the point: I'm coming from the perspective of being the white guy with a black friend/associate in these scenarios, and I have some tremendous stories of ridiculous racism. If somebody said, "pick the 'best' one," it doesn't trivialize the others, it just means there are clearly better examples than others when you're trying to make a point.

If you're wearing a hoodie and somebody can tell your race, you need a better hoodie. You might as well be wearing a turtleneck.

Youre over simplifying this and being dishonest. There are many factors involved when it comes to appearances. Wearing a hoodie may not be the lone factor. Your gait, other clothes and general demeanor/mannerisms are factors also.

There is a huge difference when we look at "a white guy with tats". One could be a Nazi lowrider and one could be a goofy ass hipster with non prescription glasses on. People would react extremely differently to each.

These discussions get tiresome when people aren't honest in their arguments. I don't have to prove I'm right, I know for a fact I am, and explaining it gets old.

****in wil jfc

I get tired of people putting blame on the victim. That people cant dress in a certain way should be the problem. Not in the way they dress.

I know they should just stop dressing that way until police can figure it out.

We are human beings and we are prone to make assumptions through visuals. You can choose to walk around with a ski mask on if you wish but don't be surprised if people look at your with extreme suspicion. Yes, I dont think we should blame the victim but people should be aware of how their appearance affects the way they are treated.

It's trivially easy to understand. I've been on both ends of the spectrum. When I wore a baseball cap and a pulled up hoodie and a black jacket over it (years ago) I was well aware of how people viewed me. Some would cross the street, women wouldn't walk close to me. I pulled the hood down whenever I entered a building because I didn't want to be viewed as suspicious.

Again, appearance means a lot. We may not agree with it and we may not think it's fair but that's the way it is. To blame it on racism is a bad argument.

Maybe he's just a ****ton more self aware than you are? Punched any kids in the face lately?

True, putting antlers on your head doesn't make you an Elk. It does increase the chance that you will be mistaken for an Elk.

Wearing a hoodie doesn't make you a criminal. It does increase the chance you will be mistaken for one.