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Old 09-05-2016, 01:18 AM   #76
frommagio
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
So C.Kaepernick did it again, taking a knee during the national anthem at tonight's 49er exhibition @Q. This time he was joined by teammate E.Reid. Meanwhile up in Oakland, Seahawk J.Lane also took a seat during the anthem, and a police union representative blasted Kaepernick for wearing socks depicting cartoon pig cops in training camp.

FWIW, I back his message, I respect his nerve, I DGAF about sitting during the anthem, but... tactically I'm not a fan of this kinda protest. I'm sure however a lot, probably most, of my fellow Politards now despise the dude, and I fully expect him to be savaged ITT. This is Baja Politards after all.

However, what has amazed me is the 49er's, and by extension the NFL's, reaction to this protest...



Legally, this is of course all wrong. Employees have zero speech rights at their work place. A boss can certainly order an abled-bodied worker to stand and act respectful on que. A boss can certainly discipline a worker for refusing to do so. The N(o) F(un) L(eague) has a long history doing this kinda thing. If the NFLPA attempted a job action regarding such discipline, they'd be hit with a restraining order so fast it'd make your head spin.

So... what's up with the NFL? The shiz is going to hit the fan if these protests extend into the regular season... which starts in a week. Does the NFL really fear a wildcat action more than losing some sponsors ??
What the hell is "on que"?
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:23 AM   #77
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Re: Kaepernick

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What the hell is "on que"?
On command.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:25 AM   #78
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Re: Kaepernick

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Respect that is demanded of people is a very bad thing. I have to recognise I have some emotioanl investment here because of when I grew up but the tearing down of respect for the symbols of authority in the UK was a desperately needed thing imo and is part of a country growing up and facing it's true self rather than it's image.
See? I knew you could cause me to see my errors! lol.

I agree that respect is something earned and cannot be demanded.

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He has a priviledged position and he is making use of it to gain much publicity for a cause.
But I still disagree with this. He's creating more publicity for himself than the cause.

I just listened to a twoplustwo podcast where the guy talks about his social media accounts blowing up with Kaepernick all over the place, but couldn't tell what all the fuss was about and purposely didn't look into it. He at first thought Kaepernick did or said something racist and it wasn't until days later that he learned what it was really all about.

Someone linked a very good article written by a vet who convinced me of what you said about respect. He also said respect is something earned over a lifetime, but a simple deed can cost you respect very quickly. And I guess that's where I'm at with Kaepernick right now. He lost my respect. Even though I agree with the cause and his right to sit out the anthem.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:35 AM   #79
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Re: Kaepernick

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... I guess that's where I'm at with Kaepernick right now. He lost my respect. Even though I agree with the cause and his right to sit out the anthem.
I imagine C.Kaepernick would be OK with your response.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:56 AM   #80
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Re: Kaepernick

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What the hell is "on que"?
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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
On command.
Oh I get it. At first I thought it had something to do with "in line" - like the British phrase "on queue", except with the common misspelling of "queue" as "que" (even though it didn't really make sense). But now I see it's an American English misspelling of "on cue," confusing it with the common misspelling of "queue." So you leveled me with multiple levels of misspellings - misspelling a misspelled word!

Carry on.
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:49 AM   #81
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Re: Kaepernick

I think Shamey might be Canadian or some kind of frenchy, so he probly dont talk right either.
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Old 09-05-2016, 04:16 AM   #82
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Re: Kaepernick

That's even worse, because "que" is a legitimate French word, but with a completely different pronunciation. On a positive note, it has an actual meaning, even though it has nothing to do with the sentence.

Maybe he was a home schooled French kid?
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Old 09-05-2016, 04:30 AM   #83
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Re: Kaepernick

Or he just can't spell "cue."
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:14 AM   #84
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Re: Kaepernick

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Or he just can't spell "cue."
Bnigo.
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:02 AM   #85
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Re: Kaepernick

Labor Law: Does Colin Kaepernick have a right to sit out the national anthem? At work, not really

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NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick sat during the national anthem... much discussion has centered on his First Amendment right to expression...

His employer, the San Francisco 49ers... has incorrectly opined that Kaepernick has a “right” to “choose to participate” under some theory of freedom in the workplace. Working at a private organization, Kaepernick has no right to “freedom of religion and freedom of expression” under the First Amendment while at work... When a person is working for a private company, the First Amendment simply doesn’t apply.

Shortly after Kaepernick’s incident, Los Angeles Rams head coach Jeff Fisher met with his entire team, and set his expectations regarding the national anthem... Fisher didn’t let a false narrative on First Amendment rights impact his expectations for his team...

Of course, employees working for private organizations may have other rights. For example, under Title VII, employees have a right to reasonable accommodations because of sincerely held religious beliefs so long as it doesn’t cause more than a de minimis hardship on the employer...
I'd say 99% of those even somewhat supporting the protesting NFL players have said words to the effect "they have that right...". This is 100% wrong. The players aren't claiming "sincerely held religious beliefs". The NFL can change their anthem policy at any time. After fair notice, they can discipline any protesting employees.
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:44 AM   #86
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Labor Law: Does Colin Kaepernick have a right to sit out the national anthem? At work, not really



I'd say 99% of those even somewhat supporting the protesting NFL players have said words to the effect "they have that right...". This is 100% wrong. The players aren't claiming "sincerely held religious beliefs". The NFL can change their anthem policy at any time. After fair notice, they can discipline any protesting employees.
And until such time they can continue to exercise their right to not sing the NA. The NFL has already made a statement saying that "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem.”
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Old 09-05-2016, 10:06 AM   #87
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Re: Kaepernick

The constitution gives me the right to have a gun but with a stroke of a pen company policy takes that right away. The NFL can certainly take action against CK anytime they want.

This may be a case of do you want to be right or do you want to be effective? A big donation to the ACLU may be more effective than turning the majority of the fan base against him.

Land of the free?

We are not free if the police are able to have a lopsided record of putting people of color in prison and shooting/killing them mostly without recourse.

We are not free if any law enforcement agency is legally able seize assets without cause and make us prove our assets are innocent. Or the government can take away half of your income in the form of taxes and give them away to foreign countries and their cronies.

Our founding fathers would no doubt be sitting with CK.

Last edited by jcorb; 09-05-2016 at 10:21 AM. Reason: .
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Old 09-05-2016, 10:15 AM   #88
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Re: Kaepernick

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...ayers-1235343/

Poker players money seized without cause.

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Old 09-05-2016, 12:20 PM   #89
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Labor Law: Does Colin Kaepernick have a right to sit out the national anthem? At work, not really



I'd say 99% of those even somewhat supporting the protesting NFL players have said words to the effect "they have that right...". This is 100% wrong. The players aren't claiming "sincerely held religious beliefs". The NFL can change their anthem policy at any time. After fair notice, they can discipline any protesting employees.
Why would the NFL want to do that?
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:38 PM   #90
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Re: Kaepernick

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Why would the NFL want to do that?
Serious? Politics is bad for business. The NBA hasn't let this shiz happen.

How does the NFL react to (a) players start protesting other shiz, like "Audit the Fed" or "Marriage is only man+woman" or labor rights? (b) players start protesting other parts of the game, like when they actual are broadcasting live? (c) other direct employees start protesting? (d) vendor's employees start protesting? (e) fans start protesting? (f) the NFLPA becomes an activist union off site? (g) the players work up to a wildcat? (h) violent counter protests erupt? (i) fan vs fan violence erupts? (j) there is an organized boycott of the NFL y/o it's sponsors and partners?

From an owner's perspective, I think T.Goodell has shot the NFL in the foot here, and I predict the owners will eventually claw this all back.
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:39 PM   #91
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Re: Kaepernick

When people say 'they have that right' they often dont mean it in the strict legal sense. It often means 'they should be allowed to do it' or 'we support them being allowed to do it'.

I've been know to support peoples right to break the law. It's not unusual to do that but makes no sense if you have a very narrow view legal view of how people use the word 'rights'
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:45 PM   #92
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Re: Kaepernick

Maybe when they start protesting animal rights, we'll see a clamp down. These are tumultuous times, there is a bit of a civil rights movement brewing. We've been here before, and learned some lessons. The country is up in arms, the NFL is 70% black. Best sit back and let this play out, I predict this is an actual quote from an NFL PR rep. Oh, and it is the right thing to do, but that's probably incidental.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:04 PM   #93
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Re: Kaepernick

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But I still disagree with this. He's creating more publicity for himself than the cause.

I just listened to a twoplustwo podcast where the guy talks about his social media accounts blowing up with Kaepernick all over the place, but couldn't tell what all the fuss was about and purposely didn't look into it. He at first thought Kaepernick did or said something racist and it wasn't until days later that he learned what it was really all about.

Someone linked a very good article written by a vet who convinced me of what you said about respect. He also said respect is something earned over a lifetime, but a simple deed can cost you respect very quickly. And I guess that's where I'm at with Kaepernick right now. He lost my respect. Even though I agree with the cause and his right to sit out the anthem.
The same can be said of all effective protestors, especially celebrity ones. Publicity for themselevs and publciity for the cause are two sides of the same coin. It raises awareness and even the chap you mention who didn't know what the fuss about became aware of what all the fuss was about. I dont know how well considered it was. Quite possibly its an emotional expession of anger and frustation but I still see that as a very good thing because the anger and frustration are for good reasons.

I dont really understand why you have lost any respect for him?
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:07 PM   #94
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Re: Kaepernick

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... Best sit back and let this play out, I predict this is an actual quote from an NFL PR rep...
No, the exact quote is this: "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem". Clearly, the NFL for now is pursuing a game plan of just hoping this all blows over. Maybe it does. In that case I'll still predict they'll yoink this pro-protest policy at the first opportune moment down the road, and for sure under the next CBA.

If it doesn't all blow over, I predict they'll yoink it quite quickly... during this season EZ game.

Quote:
... the NFL is 70% black...
Players sure, but players are a minority of game day employees. #Beer Lines Matter. What if the concessionaires and ticket takers start protesting?
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:14 PM   #95
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Players sure, but players are a minority of game day employees. #Beer Lines Matter. What if the concessionaires and ticket takers start protesting?
They will be dealt with differently unless they can persuade people it's a legitimate enough political cause.

People can (and hopefully would) support the right of the players not to 'respect' bits of cloth etc because of racism while not supporting the right of people to object to the poor quality of the beer in some disruptive manner.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:28 PM   #96
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Re: Kaepernick

the moment the NFL sees a drop in revenue over this issue, they will toss CK in a New York minute.

Money or blood, that is all that matters.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:33 PM   #97
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Re: Kaepernick

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They will be dealt with differently unless they can persuade people it's a legitimate enough political cause...
I'm sure it's not universal, but in general the concessionaires at NFL games are "at will" and work for a vendor, not the team or the often publicly owned stadium. As a customer, an annoying job requirement they have is freezing in place during the anthem. #Beer Lines Matter FTW.

If one of those workers, let's say a female PoC took a knee in solidarity with the player protests, I gotta figure the vendor would fire her on the spot, and have security escort her off the property. The now unemployed protester then whines to the press. This puts the NFL in a terrible place... why are the 'prima-dona' male millionaires allowed to protest, but your average Jane working part time gets the boot.

No large US companies allows employees to free lance protest on the clock... public facing or not. I simply can't imagine the NFL being a long term exception to that rule.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:33 PM   #98
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Re: Kaepernick

These guys aren't refusing to work, they're refusing to stand for the national anthem. I heard Kaep jerseys are selling like crazy. The NFL will make hay out of this.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:40 PM   #99
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
I'm sure it's not universal, but in general the concessionaires at NFL games are "at will" and work for a vendor, not the team or the often publicly owned stadium. As a customer, an annoying job requirement they have is freezing in place during the anthem. #Beer Lines Matter FTW.

If one of those workers, let's say a female PoC took a knee in solidarity with the player protests, I gotta figure the vendor would fire her on the spot, and have security escort her off the property. The now unemployed protester then whines to the press. This puts the NFL in a terrible place... why are the 'prima-dona' male millionaires allowed to protest, but your average Jane working part time gets the boot.

No large US companies allows employees to free lance protest on the clock... public facing or not. I simply can't imagine the NFL being a long term exception to that rule.
I would have much respect for a lowly employee who did that and hopefully sacking her would lead to a lot more than whining to the press.

The NFL should be sensible and not sack her. That's not a terrible position to be in, why on earth do they have to sack her?
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:05 PM   #100
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Re: Kaepernick

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... I heard Kaep jerseys are selling like crazy. The NFL will make hay out of this.
Dixie Chick CDs sold like hot cakes for a short time too. If these protests reach critical mass, counter protestors are going to stop buying shirts to burn, and start organizing NFL related boycotts. Politics is bad for business long term.

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... why on earth do they have to sack her?
It wouldn't in general be the NFL team sacking her, it'd be a vendor. The NFL would be stuck in the middle... always a terrible place.

In general, as I mentioned, no major US company allows free lance protests by their workers, vendors, or at their work places. They don't decide this on a case-by-case basis, ever. It's simply a matter of ceding partial control over the workplace... and they simply aren't going to do that, ever.
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