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09-23-2016 , 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaruther
So on topic of Kaepernick, sure he has the right to do it, but what does everything think about the actual substance behind his reasons? Black oppression in America.

Can someone give me any real evidence of america oppressing blacks? citing the small handful of recent police shootings that are questionable is not sufficient. we have a black president, the most black millionaires, plenty of other high ranking black political and social leaders, the most upwardly mobile society for any race in the world, we even have affirmative action employers. there will always be individual racist people but to say america is oppressing black people is extremely unfounded and out of line in my opinion.
You sure about this because according to Wilkinson and Pickett's The Spirit Level you couldn't be more wrong

09-23-2016 , 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
Murder just requires "malice aforethought"/premeditation. And while that can be developed in an instant i just dont think she was like, "im gonna kill this dude"

Manslaughter 1 is heat of passion which includes Fear which is a much more applicable according to the facts and story provided. she said she was in fear of the situation and fired her weapon. manslaughter 1 is listed as 4+ years in Oklahoma according to interwebs.

Manslaughter 2 is negligence based, which would be more appropriate for the theory that she discharged in weapon when she heard the taser go off. The sheriff that killed someone when he fired his gun instead of his taser by mistake was found guilty of man2. man 2 is zero- 4

If you are going to say the malice aforethought to kill someone is there for this shooting, then every time a cop discharges his weapon is attempted murder imo which is untenable.
So, not being American, none of this particularly applies to me. We have murder which requires the intent to kill, and manslaughter that involves killing someone. It's a lot easier for the English speaking world to refer to this event as murder (based on what we've seen) than for us all to quibble about precise legalities in our different jurisdictions.

Otherwise your objection seems pretty feel based. You just don't think she intended to kill. What does a trained person intend when they unload bullets into a civilian and then deny medical attention intend to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
If PCP was put in their drinks!
So, what you meant was not at all "if they're impaired at all", you meant "if an officer soul reads the precise drug they're on and are having rare side effects". The latter being pretty hard to do. And PCP not being as special as you think.
09-23-2016 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereds
You sure about this because according to Wilkinson and Pickett's The Spirit Level you couldn't be more wrong


just did a basic google search about this and there are plenty of responses

http://www.environnement.ens.fr/IMG/...%20Simic-2.pdf

"During the entire book, Wilkinson and Pickett are restricting themselves to inequality. No other explanation is suggested. All the cultural, economical, political differences between countries are
forgotten for the benefit of inequality.They quote massively somebody else’s data, conclusions. A lot of the referred authors are actually Wilkinson"

http://reason.com/archives/2014/06/0...mobility-myths

"Today, 64 percent of the people born to the poorest fifth of society rise out of that quintile—11 percent rise all the way into the top quintile. Meanwhile, 8 percent of people born to the richest fifth fall all the way to the bottom fifth. Sometimes great wealth makes kids lazy and self-indulgent, and wrecks their lives

Also, the rich don't get rich at the expense of the poor (unless they steal or collude with government). The poor got richer, too."

I think you can always go back and forth with data and charts and studies that contradict each other. I just dont see how america is oppressing black people. where are the anti black laws? where is the black person with a good idea, good work ethic, and reasonable intelligence that is being turned away because of his skin color.

african americans as a class make up much of the lower class because of past oppression. but since we have changed the way our society works in that regard i dont see how the poor black boy has any tougher of a climb out of the ghetto then a poor white boy

a much bigger problem in the black community is children out of wedlock. single mothers make up something like 50-70% of african american households.
09-23-2016 , 10:37 AM
yeah referencing reason.com isn't doing it for me give me a non libertarian site saying the same and I'll pay attention and trickle down economics and rising tide is just bunk
09-23-2016 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaruther
just did a basic google search about this and there are plenty of responses

http://www.environnement.ens.fr/IMG/...%20Simic-2.pdf

"During the entire book, Wilkinson and Pickett are restricting themselves to inequality. No other explanation is suggested. All the cultural, economical, political differences between countries are
forgotten for the benefit of inequality.They quote massively somebody else’s data, conclusions. A lot of the referred authors are actually Wilkinson"

http://reason.com/archives/2014/06/0...mobility-myths

"Today, 64 percent of the people born to the poorest fifth of society rise out of that quintile—11 percent rise all the way into the top quintile. Meanwhile, 8 percent of people born to the richest fifth fall all the way to the bottom fifth. Sometimes great wealth makes kids lazy and self-indulgent, and wrecks their lives

Also, the rich don't get rich at the expense of the poor (unless they steal or collude with government). The poor got richer, too."

I think you can always go back and forth with data and charts and studies that contradict each other. I just dont see how america is oppressing black people. where are the anti black laws? where is the black person with a good idea, good work ethic, and reasonable intelligence that is being turned away because of his skin color.

african americans as a class make up much of the lower class because of past oppression. but since we have changed the way our society works in that regard i dont see how the poor black boy has any tougher of a climb out of the ghetto then a poor white boy

a much bigger problem in the black community is children out of wedlock. single mothers make up something like 50-70% of african american households.
Google north Carolina voter id laws.

Again, educate yourself.
09-23-2016 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereds
yeah referencing reason.com isn't doing it for me give me a non libertarian site saying the same and I'll pay attention and trickle down economics and rising tide is just bunk
well there are two links there. many others i could have chosen from as well
09-23-2016 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Google north Carolina voter id laws.

Again, educate yourself.
i did this. are you saying that because you have to present an ID to vote in NC that is oppressing black people?
09-23-2016 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaruther
i did this. are you saying that because you have to present an ID to vote in NC that is oppressing black people?
The law was created after lawmaker commissioned a study to find out which segment of the population was most affected by voter id laws. Care to take a guess what they found? They also studied where the majority of black people would turn up to vote in the state. Care to guess what they did then? If your answer was "Close polling precincts in areas with the highest percentage of African American voters" congratulations, you aren't a total idiot.

They also reduced early voting, Sunday voting and other types of non-traditional voting options that... you guessed it, affects the African American communities at an alarmingly higher rate than any other segment of the populations.

I've done enough work for you. Educate yourself further or be a stupid piece of ****. I literally don't care which option you choose. Adding another stupid racist ****wit to the pile isn't going to change much.
09-23-2016 , 11:24 AM
Also, there is a difference between out of wedlock families that are still intact and single mothers. Using the same number for both is dishonest, but I'm sure you didn't know that. Happy to help though!
09-23-2016 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive
Man I just knew you were gonna quote from The Young Aryan's Guide To Negro Drug Abuse.

Phencyclidine (PCP), also known as angel dust and Sernyl among others,[3] is a dissociative drug. PCP was brought to market in the 1950s as an anesthetic pharmaceutical drug but was taken off the market in 1965 due to the high prevalence of dissociative hallucinogenic side effects. Moreover, the discovery of ketamine by Parke-Davis researchers was thought to represent a better-tolerated alternative for use as an anesthetic medication. Since this time a number of synthetic derivatives of PCP have been sold as dissociative drugs for recreational and non-medical use.[4]

Do you know what ketamine is? A k-hole?

Studies by the Drug Abuse Warning Network in the 1970s show that media reports of PCP-induced violence are greatly exaggerated and that incidents of violence are unusual and often limited to individuals with reputations for aggression regardless of drug use.[8]:48 Although uncommon, events of PCP-intoxicated individuals acting in an unpredictable fashion, possibly driven by their delusions or hallucinations, have been publicized.[citation needed] One example is the case of Big Lurch, a former rapper with a history of violent crime, who was convicted of murdering and cannibalizing his roommate while under the influence of PCP.[14] Other commonly cited types of incidents include inflicting property damage and self-mutilation of various types, such as pulling one's own teeth.[8]:48[14] These effects were not noted in its medicinal use in the 1950s and 1960s, however, and reports of physical violence on phencyclidine have often been shown to be unfounded.[15][16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine


FFS this was all explained 2 decades with the Rodney King tragedy.

Here's the thing: Every drug has unwanted side-effects, but the people that get these side-effects don't take the drug recreationally! You honestly think somebody takes a drug, becomes anxious and violent, then says, please sir may I have another?

Your description of PCP fits how I'm affected by marijuana, and that's why I don't do marijuana!

You don't make sense but you don't care.
Effects of PCP Use
A moderate amount of PCP often causes users to feel detached, distant, and estranged from their surroundings. Numbness of the extremities, slurred speech, and loss of coordination may be accompanied by a sense of strength and invulnerability. A blank stare, rapid and involuntary eye movements, and an exaggerated gait are among the more observable effects. Auditory hallucinations, image distortion, severe mood disorders, and amnesia may also occur. In some users, PCP may cause acute anxiety and a feeling of impending doom; in others, paranoia and violent hostility, and in some, it may produce a psychoses indistinguishable from schizophrenia. Many believe PCP to be one of the most dangerous drugs of abuse.
09-23-2016 , 11:46 AM
Notice how 5ive sources his information, and you... don't?

Yeah that's a tell
09-23-2016 , 11:48 AM
In that vein. Here's a good source for why the NC law is racist

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...voter-id-laws/
09-23-2016 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
The law was created after lawmaker commissioned a study to find out which segment of the population was most affected by voter id laws. Care to take a guess what they found? They also studied where the majority of black people would turn up to vote in the state. Care to guess what they did then? If your answer was "Close polling precincts in areas with the highest percentage of African American voters" congratulations, you aren't a total idiot.

They also reduced early voting, Sunday voting and other types of non-traditional voting options that... you guessed it, affects the African American communities at an alarmingly higher rate than any other segment of the populations.

I've done enough work for you. Educate yourself further or be a stupid piece of ****. I literally don't care which option you choose. Adding another stupid racist ****wit to the pile isn't going to change much.
Why would they target the African American population?
09-23-2016 , 11:56 AM
The police make 25 million traffic stops a year. How many end up with a cop shooting a black person?

Any questions?
09-23-2016 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
The law was created after lawmaker commissioned a study to find out which segment of the population was most affected by voter id laws. Care to take a guess what they found? They also studied where the majority of black people would turn up to vote in the state. Care to guess what they did then? If your answer was "Close polling precincts in areas with the highest percentage of African American voters" congratulations, you aren't a total idiot.

They also reduced early voting, Sunday voting and other types of non-traditional voting options that... you guessed it, affects the African American communities at an alarmingly higher rate than any other segment of the populations.

I've done enough work for you. Educate yourself further or be a stupid piece of ****. I literally don't care which option you choose. Adding another stupid racist ****wit to the pile isn't going to change much.

i dont see the connection with voter ID laws and oppression of blacks. I get that minority turn out declines with a voter ID law, but explain how being black makes it hard to comply with that law. Perhaps being poor makes it more difficult, but not having black skin.

also i have to add you to the ignore list. every response youve given has been sarcastic, pretentious, and trolly. no interest in discussing this with someone like that. i realize i may be in the wrong place though lol

open to other non raging responses to this.
09-23-2016 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87
So, not being American, none of this particularly applies to me. We have murder which requires the intent to kill, and manslaughter that involves killing someone. It's a lot easier for the English speaking world to refer to this event as murder (based on what we've seen) than for us all to quibble about precise legalities in our different jurisdictions.

Otherwise your objection seems pretty feel based. You just don't think she intended to kill. What does a trained person intend when they unload bullets into a civilian and then deny medical attention intend to do?



So, what you meant was not at all "if they're impaired at all", you meant "if an officer soul reads the precise drug they're on and are having rare side effects". The latter being pretty hard to do. And PCP not being as special as you think.
Effects of PCP Use
A moderate amount of PCP often causes users to feel detached, distant, and estranged from their surroundings. Numbness of the extremities, slurred speech, and loss of coordination may be accompanied by a sense of strength and invulnerability. A blank stare, rapid and involuntary eye movements, and an exaggerated gait are among the more observable effects. Auditory hallucinations, image distortion, severe mood disorders, and amnesia may also occur. In some users, PCP may cause acute anxiety and a feeling of impending doom; in others, paranoia and violent hostility, and in some, it may produce a psychoses indistinguishable from schizophrenia. Many believe PCP to be one of the most dangerous drugs of abuse.
09-23-2016 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaruther
i dont see the connection with voter ID laws and oppression of blacks. I get that minority turn out declines with a voter ID law, but explain how being black makes it hard to comply with that law. Perhaps being poor makes it more difficult, but not having black skin.

also i have to add you to the ignore list. every response youve given has been sarcastic, pretentious, and trolly. no interest in discussing this with someone like that. i realize i may be in the wrong place though lol

open to other non raging responses to this.
your right. This is an issue of poverty not racism.
09-23-2016 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaruther
i dont see the connection with voter ID laws and oppression of blacks. I get that minority turn out declines with a voter ID law,
You can't type these two statements together and then claim ignorance.
09-23-2016 , 12:15 PM
95% percent of the black population votes Democrat. If 95% of the white population voted Republican you all would be screaming racism.
09-23-2016 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
95% percent of the black population votes Democrat. If 95% of the white population voted Republican you all would be screaming racism.
What is this I don't even
09-23-2016 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
Why would they target the African American population?






Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
95% percent of the black population votes Democrat.
Gee. I wonder.
09-23-2016 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87
So, not being American, none of this particularly applies to me. We have murder which requires the intent to kill, and manslaughter that involves killing someone. It's a lot easier for the English speaking world to refer to this event as murder (based on what we've seen) than for us all to quibble about precise legalities in our different jurisdictions.

Otherwise your objection seems pretty feel based. You just don't think she intended to kill. What does a trained person intend when they unload bullets into a civilian and then deny medical attention intend to do?



So, what you meant was not at all "if they're impaired at all", you meant "if an officer soul reads the precise drug they're on and are having rare side effects". The latter being pretty hard to do. And PCP not being as special as you think.
It is probably nitpicky, but I am a criminal lawyer so it does make a difference to me in your terminology. And if you want to talk about what these officers should be charged with or what you think happened, then I think it does apply.

She was charged with manslaughter 1 which is quite interesting because it's a gateway to a not guilty in a jury trial. Manslaughter one requires "adequate provocation". Most of the debate has revolved around her not having provocation because people don't want to accept the possibly drugged, obviously not following commands, and general sketchiness that was going on, as adequate provocation. Well if you're jurors guess what you just did.. Found her not guilty of manslaughter 1.

So I will be curious to see the outcome of all of this. However I still bet it goes about 8 months down the road plea to man2 4 years of probation..
09-23-2016 , 12:18 PM
And yes the voter Id restrictions are incredibly racist. They are targeted at poor primarily African American democrats under the guise of prevent voter fraud which just doesn't actually happen..
09-23-2016 , 12:19 PM
Personally, I feel he has every right to sit. I also think his reasons are for a very worthwhile cause that needs as much attention as it can get.
09-23-2016 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarthshine
Personally, I feel he has every right to sit. I also think his reasons are for a very worthwhile cause that needs as much attention as it can get.
of course he has the right, i was just saying his cause is unfounded. the only response i got as evidence of oppressing black people are voter ID laws which require people to present photo ID when voting. which first of doesnt seem like that ridiculous of a request given you need IDs for much lesser events. and secondly, the laws show lower turn out with poor people, both black and white. its not that they cant comply because they are black.

      
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