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Old 09-02-2016, 12:57 AM   #1
Shame Trolly !!!1!
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Club Kaepernick

So C.Kaepernick did it again, taking a knee during the national anthem at tonight's 49er exhibition @Q. This time he was joined by teammate E.Reid. Meanwhile up in Oakland, Seahawk J.Lane also took a seat during the anthem, and a police union representative blasted Kaepernick for wearing socks depicting cartoon pig cops in training camp.

FWIW, I back his message, I respect his nerve, I DGAF about sitting during the anthem, but... tactically I'm not a fan of this kinda protest. I'm sure however a lot, probably most, of my fellow Politards now despise the dude, and I fully expect him to be savaged ITT. This is Baja Politards after all.

However, what has amazed me is the 49er's, and by extension the NFL's, reaction to this protest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Bee
... [Head Coach Chip] Kelly, meanwhile, echoed the statement the 49ers put out Friday night that said the team would not discourage Kaepernick from sitting during the national anthem... Said Kelly: “We recognize his right to do that. It’s not our right to tell him not to do something. That’s his right as a citizen.”...
Legally, this is of course all wrong. Employees have zero speech rights at their work place. A boss can certainly order an abled-bodied worker to stand and act respectful on que. A boss can certainly discipline a worker for refusing to do so. The N(o) F(un) L(eague) has a long history doing this kinda thing. If the NFLPA attempted a job action regarding such discipline, they'd be hit with a restraining order so fast it'd make your head spin.

So... what's up with the NFL? The shiz is going to hit the fan if these protests extend into the regular season... which starts in a week. Does the NFL really fear a wildcat action more than losing some sponsors ??
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:41 AM   #2
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Re: Kaepernick

I don't know why you'd expect him to be savaged here. Most are bleeding hearts that probably will applaud him.

Personally, I feel he has every right to sit. I also think his reasons are for a very worthwhile cause that needs as much attention as it can get.

But I also think there are myriad of better options at his disposal that he could employ that would have a much greater impact if he really cared about making a difference without disrespecting his country, his teammates, and all those who are now serving, served, and gave their lives defending his right to sit during the national anthem.

So to me, he's using his platform in the wrong way trying to make a statement. Let me see him put up some money, or use his time and fame demonstrating, etc. To my knowledge he hasn't done this. If someone can point me to where he has, I'll stand corrected.

Lastly, while he certainly has this right, I think the owner of the team has the right to fine, trade, and fire his ass! And fans have the right to call him a rich punk ass spoiled athlete and burn his jerseys and show our contempt for what he's doing.
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:55 AM   #3
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
FWIW, I back his message, I respect his nerve, I DGAF about sitting during the anthem, but... tactically I'm not a fan of this kinda protest.
This is the most cowardly attitude imaginable. When I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in school this is what the principal always told me. I'm on your side but I'm too ****ing cowardly to say it out loud, and, you know, forms and respect the majority herd's vicious hate for you and all that.
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Old 09-02-2016, 03:33 AM   #4
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
... I think the owner of the team has the right to fine, trade, and fire his ass!...
In general you are 100% correct. However, the NFL owners are somewhat constrained by the terms of their franchise agreement, and by the CBA. It seems as of now, the NFL is tolerating these protests...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFT
Twenty years ago, the NBA suspended a player who refused to stand for the national anthem. The NFL will not be doing the same thing.

“Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem,” the NFL said in a statement... The NBA based its suspension... on a rule that requires players to stand during the playing of the national anthem. The NFL has no such rule, and the Collective Bargaining Agreement is silent on the subject.

And so Kaepernick and any other player has the right to not stand during the national anthem...
First, I'd like to point out that the highlighted conclusion is false. If the CBA is silent, it's up to NFL or team policy. That policy can be changed at the whim of the owners, collectively as the NFL, or otherwise individually.

Second, players are a minority of game day employees at an NFL workplace. I'm going to guess a dude working the concession stand participating in this kinda protest is going to have security marching them off site before the end of the first quarter.

Third, and this is the part I find fascinating, why is the NFL tolerating these protests when it's done by players? Fans burning uniforms is bad for business. Pressure will be brought to bear on the NFL's sponsors and partners to crack down on this shiz. It's going to hit the fan next week. In the short term, this whole issue is squarely in Goodell's lap.



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Originally Posted by florentinopeces View Post
This is the most cowardly attitude imaginable. When I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in school this is what the principal always told me. I'm on your side but I'm too ****ing cowardly to say it out loud, and, you know, forms and respect the majority herd's vicious hate for you and all that.
LOL no. That's not why I feel it's poor tactics.

Last edited by Shame Trolly !!!1!; 09-02-2016 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 09-02-2016, 05:19 AM   #5
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Re: Kaepernick

The kid has balls but wearing socks with cops dressed as pigs isn't adding any credibility to his cause. He just looks like a common thug.
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:04 AM   #6
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
... Let me see him put up some money, or use his time and fame demonstrating, etc. To my knowledge he hasn't done this. If someone can point me to where he has, I'll stand corrected...
NBC: Colin Kaepernick Pledges $1 Million to Charity as Anthem Protest Spreads.
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:14 AM   #7
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Re: Kaepernick

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Lastly, while he certainly has this right, I think the owner of the team has the right to fine, trade, and fire his ass!
Where does the owner acquire this right? I guess employment protection legislation is pretty weak if this is true which I'm pretty sure is the case but I didn't realise it was this weak.

Quote:
And fans have the right to call him a rich punk ass spoiled athlete and burn his jerseys and show our contempt for what he's doing.
Having the right to do something doesn't make it right to do it. What has his wealth or his job got to do with his concerns for the treatment of African Americans in America
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:16 AM   #8
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Re: Kaepernick

Do they play the anthem before every game? Maybe he's just bored of it.
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:31 AM   #9
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Re: Kaepernick

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Do they play the anthem before every game? Maybe he's just bored of it.
*Sigh* yes. In MLB at least they didn't make it an everyday thing until WW2. After 2001-9-11 we get to enjoy another anthem in the 7th. If the Blue Jays are playing you get two pregame anthems. When the Expos played in Puerto Rico those poor fools got three.

As a fan, what sucks the most, is all the concessionaires gotta freeze during the anthems. It's a special kinda hell to have just finally got to the front of the beer line and hear "O'Canada..."
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Old 09-02-2016, 07:11 AM   #10
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Re: Kaepernick

Could be worse. At least you're allowed to drink in the stands.

And I refuse to sing our national anthem, but so far nobody has ever given a ****.
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Old 09-02-2016, 07:14 AM   #11
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
I don't know why you'd expect him to be savaged here. Most are bleeding hearts that probably will applaud him.

Personally, I feel he has every right to sit. I also think his reasons are for a very worthwhile cause that needs as much attention as it can get.

But I also think there are myriad of better options at his disposal that he could employ that would have a much greater impact if he really cared about making a difference without disrespecting his country, his teammates, and all those who are now serving, served, and gave their lives defending his right to sit during the national anthem.
I definitely applaud him. Hope others join him.

The country should be disrepected and the claim its disrespecting teamates or those who served is one of the nonsensical ideas it's always good to challange.

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And I refuse to sing our national anthem, but so far nobody has ever given a ****.
Me too. **** the queen and all that patriotic nonsense
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Old 09-02-2016, 07:32 AM   #12
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Re: Kaepernick

The lack of patriotism can be a little irritating when I want to make a political point though.
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:44 AM   #13
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
In general you are 100% correct. However, the NFL owners are somewhat constrained by the terms of their franchise agreement, and by the CBA. It seems as of now, the NFL is tolerating these protests...
Yeah, I guess that can't bench him since he already lost his starting spot lol! But I do think teams might have more power than you think. He's being insubordinate and a distraction. That should make it okay to fine or suspenc. It's also not like the team as an employer is violating any religious freedoms by requiring him to participate in what is standard protocol with teammates!
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:46 AM   #14
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Yeah, just read that now. Glad to hear he's donating (5%?) of his yearly income to a cause he feels so strongly about he's willing to publicly act like a spoiled, ungrateful brat. Still say there are many more worthwhile things he could be using his fame and platform to further the cause.
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:53 AM   #15
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Where does the owner acquire this right? I guess employment protection legislation is pretty weak if this is true which I'm pretty sure is the case but I didn't realise it was this weak.
I was ranting/guessing. I'm not really sure what rights an owner has. But if he could be fined or suspended, I wouldn't consider that weak employment protection legislation. This is not discrimination under some religious or health issue. He is not participating in a team activity and possibly being insubordinate.



Quote:
What has his wealth or his job got to do with his concerns for the treatment of African Americans in America
Everything imo. He's one of the few who has the wealth and platform to make a positive difference without disrespecting his country and all the men and women who have sacrificed for his right to act like a spoiled brat.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:09 AM   #16
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The country should be disrepected and the claim its disrespecting teamates or those who served is one of the nonsensical ideas it's always good to challange.
Disagree. It amazes me how little people think about the issues they're protesting. It's like the occupy Wall Street movement. The problem wasn't Wall Street. The problem was with government's regulation of Wall Street. So go protest in the right place. In WASHINGTON!

His problem shouldn't be with the flag. He shouldn't be disrespecting the country and all the men and women who have served and made the ultimate sacrifice in protecting his right to be a moron.

The problem lies in bad regulation (mostly on the local level but also from the top down) that allows a racist culture in police forces. Also with a biased judicial system that unfairly incarcerates minorities at much higher percentage than whites. It also allows cops to literally get away with murder.

You could just as soon sit and disrespect the flag because bad regulation allowed Flint Michigan to let their water supply to become contaminated with lead. Or that led to the BP oil spill.

You could argue that this is part of the country, but it's not what America stands or strives for. He's protesting the wrong thing imo. And in doing so, he is disrespecting all those who serve and died for his right to be an idiot. But I agree, he does have that right. And I have the right to think he's a spoiled punk athlete who should be fined and suspended.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:11 AM   #17
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
... He's being insubordinate and a distraction. That should make it okay to fine or suspenc....
That's the tact the NBA takes. The NFL could have followed suit after C.Kaepernick's first protest. But they didn't. Amazingly the NFL went the other way, and made an official statement that players standing for the anthem is optional.

So for now at least, the team owners are SOL. They can impose a fine, but under the CBA any player so sanctioned can appeal that fine to the commissioner's office. The commissioner's office will have to throw out the fine, because they've officially said standing is optional.

Now, it doesn't have to stay that way. Goodell can flip-flop. The owners can call a meeting and overrule him. Either way, they'd have to give notice to the NFLPA that they are changing their policy. Only then could they start fining players.
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:00 PM   #18
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Re: Kaepernick

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Everything imo. He's one of the few who has the wealth and platform to make a positive difference without disrespecting his country and all the men and women who have sacrificed for his right to act like a spoiled brat.
Why is he acting like a spolied brat? He made it clear that his protest was not based on his personal experience but rather the experience of those that don't have a voice. Whether you agree or not with his stance I don't see any brattishness there, Sean Hannity does. On the wealth thing there's an interesting take here

Quote:
Kaepernick’s true sin is his rejection of the faustian bargain offered to black people who reach elite status in America––that their success comes at the price of ceasing to criticize the racism in the system that allowed them to thrive as exceptions. Many Americans would prefer that black elites not remind them of America’s unfulfilled promise that all are created equal, but rather pretend it has already been realized, or be silent about the ways in which it has not. The only thing that would satisfy Kaepernick’s critics is apathy.
Like why shouldn't rich people protest at the harms done to others especially when the poor protesting generally results in no one giving a ****.
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:15 PM   #19
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Re: Kaepernick

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Disagree. It amazes me how little people think about the issues they're protesting. It's like the occupy Wall Street movement. The problem wasn't Wall Street. The problem was with government's regulation of Wall Street. So go protest in the right place. In WASHINGTON!

His problem shouldn't be with the flag. He shouldn't be disrespecting the country and all the men and women who have served and made the ultimate sacrifice in protecting his right to be a moron.

The problem lies in bad regulation (mostly on the local level but also from the top down) that allows a racist culture in police forces. Also with a biased judicial system that unfairly incarcerates minorities at much higher percentage than whites. It also allows cops to literally get away with murder.

You could just as soon sit and disrespect the flag because bad regulation allowed Flint Michigan to let their water supply to become contaminated with lead. Or that led to the BP oil spill.

You could argue that this is part of the country, but it's not what America stands or strives for. He's protesting the wrong thing imo. And in doing so, he is disrespecting all those who serve and died for his right to be an idiot. But I agree, he does have that right. And I have the right to think he's a spoiled punk athlete who should be fined and suspended.
We see this very differently. But I am at heart a punk who finds blind patriotism nauseating and sees disrespecting the flag as a good thing when there is so much systemically wrong with the country it represents. This is protest at it's bravest and finest imo - no innocent victims, gets loads of attention to the issue and carries a lot of idownside.

Disrespecting a flag is not disrespecting the people who serve in the military. It's just a flag.
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:28 PM   #20
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Re: Kaepernick

I'm surprised Trump isn't on his side. Kap did say Hillary belongs in prison. I think he has every right to do what he is doing even though I personally disagree with him. I would also say it's his right to sport a swastika tat if he chooses. I'm pretty much for complete freedom of speech/expression no matter how many people it offends. That tool Alan Colmes is on TV right now supporting Kap's right to not stand... Would Colmes the liberal weiner be OK with it if he said he refused to honor the flag of a country that allows homosexual marriage?
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:35 PM   #21
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE View Post
The kid has balls but wearing socks with cops dressed as pigs isn't adding any credibility to his cause. He just looks like a common thug.
The first thing that comes to mind when I think of a thug is socks with cartoons embroidered on them.
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Old 09-02-2016, 05:27 PM   #22
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Re: Kaepernick

The current thinking is Kap doesn't get cut. It has been a close football decision with plenty of media speculation.
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:50 PM   #23
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Re: Kaepernick

i remember chris jackson/mahmoud abdul rauf doing this in the 90's in the nba, as i recall he got completely savaged. NFL bein progressive here. however, from a team/GM standpoint i could understand really not wanting the guy around. i'm sure there are players on the team who have family who have served or are currently serving in the military that this might be pretty offensive to, prob not the best for team chemistry, idk.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:13 PM   #24
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Re: Kaepernick

it's pretty amazing to me that a man who SAT DOWN is getting this much attention. i'd like that kind of power.

it will be interesting to see what he actually does with it.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:25 PM   #25
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We see this very differently.
We sure do. But I've always respected the way you think so maybe you can change my mind. It should be easy enough to do since I'm becoming more and more sour with my country's corrupt government and judicial system.

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But I am at heart a punk who finds blind patriotism nauseating and sees disrespecting the flag as a good thing when there is so much systemically wrong with the country it represents.
Okay, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Sure, there's no question there are things gravely wrong with some of our systems (and I'm starting to think it's almost all or at least the majority of our systems, rather than just a few). Nevertheless, there is also much I'm very grateful for...

I'm grateful I don't live in Saudi Arabia or some other backwards country that is ruled by fundamental religious laws. I'm also very grateful and have too much respect for those who serve and all the sacrifices they and their families make. And unfortunately it is sometimes the ultimate sacrifice.

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This is protest at it's bravest and finest imo - no innocent victims, gets loads of attention to the issue and carries a lot of idownside.
Totally disagree here. This is the protest of a privileged weakling. Just because he's black or part black doesn't make him a champion for BLM or even a surrogate. There is so much more this "punk" could be doing if he really cared about the cause. There are so many better and more productive ways he could be using his name and influence. Instead, he chooses the all too easy path that comes with the least amount of work attached. Sitting down for the national anthem. I'm incredulous that you find this to be brave?!

Quote:
Disrespecting a flag is not disrespecting the people who serve in the military. It's just a flag.
I disagree with this as well. The flag represents the very country that those in the military are serving! To disrespect the flag is to disrespect what they're fighting for, what many have lost their lives for, and the sacrifices they and their families are making for the country which that flag represents.

I hate to use an old cliche, but it's like a husband complaining about the faults of his wife, or someone complaining about the problems at their job. If you don't like it, go find another one. There are other countries Mr. Kaepernick can go live and make his $19M a year. Oh wait...
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