Immigration and refugees - Page 69 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

First, I love how easy it is to control you people. I made you post Trumps speech. I should change my name to liberal puppet master.

Second, I don't see were he says Mexicans are rapists. It's obvious what he meant and he is right. This is yet another example of how you folks are seeing things from a distorted perspective. It would behoove you all to listen to myself and others who are able to see things as they are. Step back and get some perspective.

100% It is totally obvious what he meant. Honestly liberals are either stupid or just dishonest about this particular quote.

07-24-2017 , 11:48 PM

#1702

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot

Ya really eh well I'm talking about illegal immigrants, who are all criminals by definition.

Trump was talking about rapists and murderers and drug smugglers, not people who walked across a line they weren't supposed to! He's dishonestly framing the issue and you know it. Why do you defend that statement?

07-24-2017 , 11:53 PM

#1703

DoOrDoNot

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,763

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Hear me again. The crime rate in the illegal immigrant community is 100%; they are all committing a crime because they are all breaking the law by being here illegally. I'm almost certain your studies showing low crime rates in immigrants are for those who are here legally, and it doesn't surprise me that they have low rates of crime.

Illegal immigrants come here illegally because it is easy and simple to do so, because they flagrantly disrespect the law, or because they are not able to immigrate legally because of criminal records. All of these show character traits of criminality, and in a % of cases actually arch-criminals including rapists and murderers and drug smugglers. Some of them are good, but desperate, people who break the law that once and hope to get away with it. Hope I made myself clear enough for you.

EDIT: Trump was (obviously) not talking about legal immigrants from Mexico.

Last edited by DoOrDoNot; 07-24-2017 at 11:58 PM.

07-24-2017 , 11:55 PM

#1704

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

First, I love how easy it is to control you people. I made you post Trumps speech. I should change my name to liberal puppet master.

Apparently you enjoy replaying the election from 6 months ago, just like your comic-book idol. Well played controlling me. I admit I noticed the control when forced to think of you as an idiot for this post.

Quote:

Second, I don't see were he says Mexicans are rapists. It's obvious what he meant and he is right. This is yet another example of how you folks are seeing things from a distorted perspective. It would behoove you all to listen to myself and others who are able to see things as they are. Step back and get some perspective.

*idiot* GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

07-24-2017 , 11:57 PM

#1705

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

If someone asks for cites then do this they should no longer be able to ask for cites without a timeout.

I didn't ask for a cite. I simply corrected him. Only nerds ask for cites.

A warning to all of you. Don't attempt to get me with one of your gotcha moments. It's not gonna end well. If you want to engage me with real discussion and debate I'm game. I won't put up with this leftist nonsense though.

07-24-2017 , 11:59 PM

#1706

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot

This is being thirsty for a simple answer to complicated questions. Get off your technicality high horse (just like the "a man is a man" derp) and discuss the issue of crime rates *other than the immigration itself*.

07-25-2017 , 12:00 AM

#1707

batair

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Id guess illegal immigrant crime rate is lower then legal which is lower then trump.

07-25-2017 , 12:01 AM

#1708

spanktehbadwookie

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****in' eh.

07-25-2017 , 12:01 AM

#1709

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

LOL a warning

No, you're wrong.

(Is that the type of real discussion and debate we can expect?

07-25-2017 , 12:02 AM

#1710

batair

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I didn't ask for a cite. I simply corrected him. Only nerds ask for cites.

You asked for one form me and then did the gotya bit. Should be a timeout imo.

And no...

07-25-2017 , 12:02 AM

#1711

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot

Hear me again. The crime rate in the illegal immigrant community is 100%; they are all committing a crime because they are all breaking the law by being here illegally. I'm almost certain your studies showing low crime rates in immigrants are for those who are here legally

Stopped reading here. You are wrong. Are you going to update your view and your take on Trump's statement now?

07-25-2017 , 12:03 AM

#1712

JiggyMac

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Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Id guess illegal immigrant crime rate is lower then legal which is lower then trump.

Well, when getting you caught gets you deported, I suppose you either:

1) Keep your nose clean
2) Don't report it

Are you suggesting we lower the crime rate even more by threatening to deport anyone who commits one?

07-25-2017 , 12:05 AM

#1713

batair

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lol.

07-25-2017 , 12:08 AM

#1714

mongidig

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Hey Max!

Only you control what goes on in your head. Liberals tend to be outward focused. They blame the world for their problems. Stop blaming others, Stop using others as a crutch. This is why you rarely see an angry Consrvative in this forum. We are in control. We accept what is. We are inwardly motivated and do not let others dictate our happiness.

07-25-2017 , 12:08 AM

#1715

DoOrDoNot

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,763

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Stopped reading here. You are wrong. Are you going to update your view and your take on Trump's statement now?

Ill read all this stuff and get back

07-25-2017 , 12:09 AM

#1716

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

TIL citizens report their own crimes because they're not afraid of being deported.

07-25-2017 , 12:12 AM

#1717

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Id guess illegal immigrant crime rate is lower then legal which is lower then trump.

Which is lower than Hillary.

07-25-2017 , 12:19 AM

#1718

mongidig

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Stopped reading here. You are wrong. Are you going to update your view and your take on Trump's statement now?

This is all about violent crime. They don't talk at all about identity theft.

07-25-2017 , 12:20 AM

#1719

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

This is all about violent crime.

So was Trump's speech

07-25-2017 , 12:26 AM

#1720

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Thanks for that.

My offering to you, and to trump fanatics in general is this. Try to better figure out what things have considerable risk and what the risks actually are. You wont get a fair shake on this info from the outlets that cater to trump fans. They foment fear for profit. (MSM does this as well, probably to a lesser degree, and I hate them for it). It will take effort.

I suggest this because I think many of your positions are grounded in unfounded fears. Not all, maybe not even a lot, but still too many. There are real dangers out there, to be sure, which we should be focused on. Then there are lots of fake dangers, fabricated to generate clicks, to sell stuff, or to get your support or vote.

07-25-2017 , 12:31 AM

#1721

mongidig

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

I think we can both learn from each other Max.

07-25-2017 , 01:28 AM

#1722

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

lol Morondog taking a leaf out of wilch's beta cuckbook.

If you have to follow someone else's tactics, better choose a winning player.

07-25-2017 , 03:14 AM

#1723

DoOrDoNot

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,763

I read the link goofy sent me and there is nothing parsing immigrant crime from illegal immigrant crime in the study. It's just done on 'immigrants.' The studies cited are from 1938, 1968, 1997 and 1998, so only 2 after immigration reform in 1965. Some interesting finds:

-the more racially homogenous the population, the lower the crime rate.
-there was a large spike in crime after the immigration wave of 1965, but the researchers seem to discount and explain away, though not quantitatively, illegal immigration offenses and drug trafficking (lol?) for some reason.
-there is no difference between murder rate in black and hispanic murder rates in poor areas, but the study does not mention whites in this regard
-this studies were done with self-reporting (double lol)

Quote:

Using panel data on U.S. counties, Spenkuch finds that a 10 percent increase in the share of immigrants increases the property crime rate by 1.2 percent. In other words, the average immigrant commits roughly 2.5 times as many property crimes as the average native but with no impact on violent crime rates. He finds that this effect on property crime rates is caused entirely by Mexican immigrants. Separating Mexicans from other immigrants, the former commit 3.5 to 5 times as many crimes as the average native.

There is one line introducing the article which gives an example of an illegal immigrant killing someone, and then the study goes on to talk about immigration in general, so maybe goofy was confused by this.

There's one tiny sample of 1297 aliens mentioned at the bottom of the study

Quote:

The public focus is on the crime rates of unauthorized or illegal immigrants. The research papers above mostly include all immigrants regardless of legal status. However, every problem with gathering data on immigrant criminality is multiplied for unauthorized immigrants. There is some work that can help shed light here.

With particular implications for the murder of Kate Steinle, Hickman et al. look at the recidivism rates of 517 deportable and 780 nondeportable aliens released from the Los Angeles County Jail over a 30-day period in 2002. They found that there is no difference in the rearrest rate of deportable and nondeportable immigrants released from incarceration at the same place and time. Their paper is not entirely convincing for several reasons, the most important being that their sample does not include the higher risk inmates who were transferred to state prison and were subsequently released from there. There are also findings in their paper that seem to contradict their conclusion that aren’t adequately accounted for.

Now here's some real data:

Quote:

The Government Accountability Office released two unsettling reports in 2005 on criminal aliens who are in prison for committing crimes in the United States, and issued an updated report in 2011.

The first report found that criminal aliens, both legal and illegal, make up 27 percent of all federal prisoners. Yet non-citizens are only about nine percent of the nation’s adult population. Thus, judging by the numbers in federal prisons alone, non-citizens commit federal crimes at three times the rate of citizens.

link: http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/93090.pdf

The findings in the second report are even more disturbing. It reviewed the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens in federal or state prisons and local jails who “entered the country illegally.” Those illegal aliens were arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien.

link: http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/93090.pdf

The 2011 GAO report is more of the same. The criminal histories of 251,000 criminal aliens showed that they had committed close to three million criminal offenses. Sixty-eight percent of those in federal prison and 66 percent of those in state prisons were from Mexico. Their offenses ranged from homicide and kidnapping to drugs, rape, burglary, and larceny.

Once again, these statistics are not fully representative of crimes committed by illegal aliens — this report only reflects the criminal histories of aliens who were in prison.

Research conducted by the federal government oversight organization Judicial Watch in 2014 documents that 50 percent of all federal crimes were committed near our border with Mexico.

Of the 61,529 criminal cases filed by federal prosecutors; 40 percent or 24,746 were in court districts along the southern borders of California, Arizona and Texas.

That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants were also involved in 17 percent of all drug trafficking sentences and one third of all federal prison sentences.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S.

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

To extrapolate out these statistics, this means that a population of just over 3.5 percent residing in the U.S. unlawfully committed 22 percent to 37 percent of all murders in the nation.

Guess ol' Donald was right.

Last edited by DoOrDoNot; 07-25-2017 at 03:28 AM.

07-25-2017 , 11:49 AM

#1724

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot

Now here's some real data:

Quote:

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

To extrapolate out these statistics, this means that a population of just over 3.5 percent residing in the U.S. unlawfully committed 22 percent to 37 percent of all murders in the nation.

Guess ol' Donald was right.

LOL, where did this "data" come from, since it wasn't in my link? The idea that 22% to 37% of the murders in this country were committed by illegal immigrants is not even close to passing the smell test, and I guarantee you there is some massive brain fart in how that conclusion was reached. How are you so ****ing stupid as to be so gullible to fall for that??

07-25-2017 , 11:55 AM

#1725

goofyballer

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LOOOOOOOOOOOL

Here is DODN's source

Note "pundits-blog" in the URL title and the lack of a single link to relevant data in the body, we're supposed to take his ****ing word for it! Even with numbers that are transparently obvious bull****, DODN's like "yep, guess Donald was right" LOLOLOLOL

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