I believe Denmarks stats are helpful. If we extrapolate crime statistics from from Danish stats by country of origin to Swedish populations of immigrants from the same countries of origin, we can see that such immigration should have had a major impact on our crime rate. That is unless we for some unknown reason are much better at integrating uneducated third world immigrants than Denmark is. I find this highly unlikely.

2015 murder rate per 100k:

Sweden 1.1
USA 4.9

1990 murder rate per 100k:

Sweden 1.3
USA 9.4

In western Europe the murder rate has fallen from about 1.3 to 0.6 from 1980 to 2013. Why is Sweden trending so poorly in comparison? Why have we gone from an average western European country to one of the highest murder rates in western Europe?

where are u getting the 0.6 murder rate in western Europe from? I looked up the Norwegian rate from 2015 and thats was at 0.55 and we are usually more than 0.05 below average on stats like this.

taking a quick look at wiki page for intentional homicide rates makes the 0.6 number look off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

only 4 countries classified as northern or western european was at 0.6 or lower(Norway, Iceland, Austria and Switzerland). Those numbers are from 2013 and 2014 so things might have changed. but a big drop in the murder rate from 2013 to 2015 would be weird with the refugees raping and killing everyone

Keep the bad brownbres out. IMO.

I'm shocked that marn is lying about stats in an attempt to discriminate. Shocked I tell you!

i dont know where you got the 11x number in that linked post from but it's not something that have ever been used in denmark. if you got it from the statistics then you probably handled them horribly. the danish numbers i gave you are much better. you should use those instead.

the chart is terrible. if you want to compare sweden to the rest of the world then there are 20 better/less misleading, ways to it. it seemed to be done on purpose to confuse people.

The above is an interesting discussion. I bolded part of Marn's quote.

So jalfrezi is saying the high rape rate is more effectively explained as due to demographics - age, poverty, sex, etc. I would like to see a source/cite for that assertion. (Though I'm not asking for moderation on the subject - would just like to see the support).

Specifically, it looks like in the closed thread Marn showed an average of about 8x higher rape conviction rates. Do demographics account for 4x, but the remaining 2x (cuz 8x = 4x times 2x) are accounted for by the culture of the immigrants/refugees? Or all 8x are accounted for by demographics?

Next, no one is addressing Marn's point I bolded above. Even if the problem is caused by demographics, the problem is still there, and can be solved by stopping the immigration flow, because the immigrants fit those demographics.

Alternatively, proponents of maintaining the immigration flow can refute the data itself. Are Marn's stats wrong? If so, why and how?

The crime stats don't include every refugee and immigrant. Hence, are partial and don't tell a complete story about refugees and immigrants. Which leaves question of justification for the refugees and immigrants who are falsely associated with criminality by using a crime states approach to decide how to handle immigrants and refugees as a host nation or entity.

So, how are the refugees and immigrants who are innocent of criminality accounted for using the crime stat schemes to decide about immigration and sheltering refugees?

I'm pretty sure the stats do include every immigrant. The innocent immigrants are counted as innocent. Simple.

If on the other hand, you are saying that, because many immigrants are innocent, we cannot make decisions based on the guilt of other immigrants, I think that is mistaken.

Making decisions about innocent persons based on an assumption of criminality of other persons is inconsistent with the definitions of innocent and persons.

So, what I think you're saying is that you don't care how high the percent rapist a refugee flow is, if any of them are innocent, you would let the refugee flow into your country continue. Am I missing something?

Well, No. I am saying that innocent people are innocent, and treating them like criminals is a categorical error. It is also contrary to the principle of justice that states ' a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty through due process'.

Are you suggesting analyzing crime graphs is a due process which justifies treating innocent people like rapists?

Most of the people governing in Europe are thieves and frauds. Very few of them are immigrants.

pokerodox it better if you quote the Marn post/stats you want ot discuss that way we can look up the numbers and see if they are real. Discussing an imaginary 8x conviction rate is pointless but if its accurate it might be worth discussing.

OK. So it sounds like we just disagree on the level of due process that we should give to refugees. I can understand arguments for giving them all the due process of citizens, but that is not how we do it, and I don't think it would be practical.

We make categorical decisions about immigration all the time. By excluding large groups because they have higher crime rates, we are not actually convicting the group of the crime. We are just excluding them.

It's a locked thread, so no quote button. Here is what Marn said. I can't seem to get his figure to carry over here. I believe the figure/graph was his compilation of the numbers from the Danmark statstik(2010-2014) study.

"The latest study done by Danmark statistik(2010-2014) showed that non western immigrants were convicted of rape 8x more often than native Danes.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 640x480."

I think this will produce the figure...

One more try.

i dont buy this. there's no study from danmarks statistik saying anything like that. i have never seen this number and we have plenty of rightwing clowns that would have brought it up. if it's not made up entirely it's atleast misleading because it doesnt do simple stuff like adjust for age differences.

the conventional age-adjusted number is non-western immigrants are roughly 50% more likely to be convicted of crimes and a little more so of violent crimes.

I question the veracity a process being claimed due because of the categorical error which discriminates against innocence.

This again? What about it? Can you explain the wide fluctuation in how rapey immigrants are?

I got that number from Tino Sanandajis facebook page. He is usually very careful with getting statistics correct, so I went with it. He cites http://www.euro.who.int/en/data-and-evidence/databases which looks like a mess to me and it does not show up in the Wikipedia page Subterranian linked to.

Looking at the below Wikipedia reference page 34 fig 1.16 it looks like murder rate has gone down from about 2.0 to 1.0 in from 1995 to 2012 in western europe. Pretty hard to get a simple summary of these stats from what I have gathered from my searches. Anyhow, aofrantic, I am not deliberately lying about anything, even though it suits your worldview that anyone opposing it is trying to deceive. I want to understand the issue, if you guys can correct my errors then that is welcome.

edit: given my overall point was that Sweden is trending poorly, seems like it still stands when compared to the USA and western Europe.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/p...E_BOOK_web.pdf

The only stats and rape statistics by immigrants I have actually verified myself is the 5x rape over-representation number for all immigrants which was from Brå's 1999 report(no newer stats on this are available for Sweden), since certain nationalities were over represented in overall crime statistics I assumed that the above chart is based on real data from Denmark statistics, I have also seen this chart referenced a number of times without seeing it debunked. I assume this data lies buried in http://statistikbanken.dk/statbank5a/default.asp?w=2560, but hasn't been officially compiled in a government report. If I am wrong I apologize.

Your gubmint obv cant be trusted when it comes to crime stats related to immigration iirc. I am not sure why you would even consider giving credence to "officially compiled gubmint reports"

The video I posted with legit stats and sources was taken down because of a subjectively biased opinion that the video showed "vulnerable groups" blah blah bad light

Shame really... but for any one that wants to view it, or listen to it, its Stephan Molyneuxs podcast # FDR3596 titled " The Truth About Immigration And Crime In The Netherlands.


The video on yootoobs is better because the whole cast is statistical graphs from start to finish and shows the exact problem that imo cannot be argued from the left ( likely the real reason it was deleted imo)

I trust their ability to gather accurate statistics. How they interpret it officially is another matter. Also they no longer share all data with the common man, this is worrying and we should have made a bigger deal about it a long time ago in Sweden.