Good info in here:

https://twitter.com/Jim_Harper/statu...74628252516353

Why rightwingers are desperate for Sweden to 'fail'

In more exciting news for Marn and Co, Shots fired as armed mob tries to storm Manus Island detention centre

Yall wanna talk about this MS-13 mess Obama got us in?

Nixon started the war on drugs.

Reagan backed the wars in Central America.

MS-13 started in the 1980s.

CAFTA destroyed small farms in El Salvador destroying the livelihoods of many Salvadorans and prompting a flood of economic refugees.

Mass incarceration, draconian policing, and cuts to social services created conditions in LA's poor neighborhoods that fostered the growth of street gangs.

Pretty much. To think that MS - 13 is primarily the problem of Obama is to be ignorant or naive about the American involvement in El Salvador

Obama wanted to focus on deporting criminals, but Republicans insisted that abuellas be hunted down as well.

Trump has instructed Jeff Sessions to take care of this problem. What did Obama do other than leave the borders open and allow these kids into the country?

MS13 originated in the United States among people who were radicalized by Reagan's wars and mostly came to this country well before Obama was President. And Obama deported a lot of people, focusing on criminals instead of blindly focusing on non-whites like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions.

do you think the immigration policies in europe should take some responsibility for the consistent repetition of terrorist attacks? if so how much or little?

i think its remarkably virtuous and practically heroic of you to make sure that the muslims not participating in the terrorism aren't mixed up in any of the criticism. the placement of your empathy speak volumes. perhaps some condemnation, reflection, and responsibility needs to be passed around also. maybe you could lead us in that are also.

why does this keep happening?

how could it have been prevented?

how can we prevent this from continuing to happen?

i realize you are busy making sure that nobody gets non terrorist muslims mixed up with isis but when you have a minute, maybe you could answer the questions and shift your empathy to current and future victims

I think if we build a wall (physical or not) then the problems get worse both in the world and for us in particular. Getting to know each other as people rather than sitting on the other side of a wall helps although that's not the reason for the immigration policies we have.

Until the political problems in parts of the world are resolved then the problem doesn't go away. We can prevent a lot of attempts (and that can no doubt be improved) but nothing will keep us totally immune from major world problems.

The claim we don't care about future victims is a total strawman

you didn't answer the questions. you just rattled of some talking points and avoided the issue. take some effing responsibility for the consequences of decisions. holy %$@!

there were 5 questions asked. definitely start with the first two. if you can't answer very straight forward questions honestly, then have a look in the mirror. theres a bunch of dead teen aged girls. its about time you reflect honestly. this is just turning in to some sort of mental sickness. there isnt one answer to immigration policy but for @%$! sakes take some responsibility for the consequence involved with the decisions that have been made

i never said you don't care about future victims. you need to focus your empathy there before it happens instead of the feelings of muslims who arent bigoted and murderous. i also suggest that you are responsible which has nothing to do with the fact you care about the victims or not. im certain you care about the victims

It's still a strawman Juan. I'm concerned about future victims now.

You're not offering any solution that will stop there being victims - there are no simple or fast solutions. It's really cheap rhetoric on your part to use the victims the way you do - cheap rhetoric that can easily be used to justify actions that lead to far more victims.

comically enough its a strawman to misrepresent my position in order to say its a strawman

its obvious that you will never answer my questions, especially the first two. thats two whiffs. you seriously need to take a look in the mirror. answer the questions. zero responsibility? if not, how much? why?

if there is responsibility for the ariana grande fans being murdered then there is obviously responsibility for future victims. you need to own up to this and stop avoiding consequences and responsibility. you cant even answer two simple and obvious questions because your whole shtick is based on intellectual dishonesty. prove me wrong, answer the two questions honestly

how am i "using victims"? victims of what? terrorism? im using victims of terrorism to talk about terrorism? im using victims of radical muslim terrorism to talk about immigration that isnt related to importing millions of muslims?

this is simple cause and effect. are you denying immigration policy is related to increasing radical muslim terrorism? its is. stop playing bizarre mental games

You are using the victims in a way similar to the following:

If we had police on every corner searching everybody then we would stop people being killed by those with bombs and weapons. You object to that - why don't you care about the future victims.

These questions all have some superficial appeal, but on closer inspection turn out to be empty rhetorical devices.

First, some facts (I know you hate these things but stick with me).

Immigration in Europe is not a new event: it has always existed. Only fairly recently has there been a problem with some immigrants carrying out terrorist acts in Europe.

All the "ISIS" attacks in the UK to date were carried out by people born and bred in Britain, and they cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called immigrants.

The reason governments like immigration boils down to simple economics (there are also other benefits to immigration): at certain times in the economic cycle there is too little revenue from tax to pay the burgeoning pensioner population's state pensions. Remove immigration and you're left with the stark choice between much higher taxation and allowing a pensioners to starve. Which would of these two policies would you prefer to immigration?

A far more interesting and pertinent question would have been something like "Why are some sections of the UK community attracted to the cause of fighting/being trained by ISIS in Syria etc?", but I doubt you even realise that's an issue.

For you, it all boils down to hating people with a different skin colour to yours, and you can't bring yourself to admit it because you know how pathetic that world view is.


Why indeed does **** happen and why are you, sitting in Canada, so concerned about sporadic acts of terrorism in Europe that, no matter how egregiously awful, still only account for a tiny fraction of the deaths/year of, say, road accidents, I wonder?

Where were the anti-immigration people like you when the IRA were planting bombs in the UK (which as a Londoner I can assure you was equally disturbing)? Oh that's right, they did exist, were called the National Front (ring any bells?) and openly espoused fascist views, replete with physical assaults on ethnic minorities (bells ringing any louder yet?).


You cannot prevent terrorism per se any more than you can prevent burglary. If someone's determined to commit an act of terrorism, they will, whether they get away with it or not. I don't expect someone from a non-terrorist affected country to ever understand this.

I just read a book by national economist Tino Sanandaji, in which he absolutely tears this argument to bits. He showed and calculated in detail the average cost of the kind of lowly educated immigration we have had over the last 30 years. What Jalfrezi is claiming is a common alternative truth parroted across the far left, but it is wishful thinking and is not based in reality for a a modern welfare state.

I will get in the nitty gritty details of it if you want Jalfrezi, but that will have to wait for tomorrow. Same goes for the rest of your post which I mostly disagree with.

Oh, you must mean

Good to see he's so well acquainted with hypocrisy and the noble art of pulling up the drawbridge before others can enjoy the same benefits he has.

Cant you find any sources to cite who aren't terrible human beings?

You don't know what hypocrisy means. So an immigrant can not be critical of future immigration based on very different policies? That is ridiculous and quite frankly surprisingly dumb even coming from you.

His academic work and his work as an author is solid and factual.

So you decide who is a terrible human being? Based on what, your leftist ideology. gtfo

I haven't read this book or author, but him being an Iranian immigrant to Sweden doesn't seem like any reason to disagree with his conclusions. I would love it if the two of you could have this conversation.

what the actual $%@ is your malfunction?

if there were police on every corner stopping terrorist attacks then policy makers and their supporters could take some responsibility for all of the terrorist attacks they actually thwarted. if that same policy was so expensive that it bankrupted the country, they would also be responsible

you support policies and policy makers that imported millions of people immigrating with a muslim ideology. you were opposed and warned by many people over and over. you went ahead anyways. you can take responsibility (credit) for saving people from being on a battlefield. you also need to take responsibility when the people you import through the immigration policy you approve keep committing acts of terrorism

this is so absurdly childish. children dont think about consequences or take responsibility for them. buh buh buh i dont want to think of it that way, i dont want to be responsible for ariana grande fans being blown up... tough ****, reality matters. thats the truth. immigration policy is responsible

these attacks are going to keep happening and thats on the policy makers and their supporters. grow up. take some responsibility. the denial here is absurd. you deserve credit for the positive aspects of taking refugees and you deserve to take responsibility for the negative consequences also

its absolutely pathetic to see the mental gymnastics here. the left have called everyone bigots and phobes who disagree with their immigration policies and then when it blows up in their face, they take no responsibility

You're missing the point. I don't think raising a wall will prevent innocent victims. Over time I think it will produce a greater number of victims. You may disagree but whatever approach you think is best there are going to be victims because there's a massive problem.

I do feel some responsibility for what happens. What do you want me to do - support a policy that I think will make things worse?

YES HE DID WTF IS WRONG YOU

Juan is correct.

Based on the evidence I have in front of me, which is far superior to basing judgements on fear and other emotions as you and all the other pathetic and dishonest neo-fascists do.