Immigration and refugees - Page 14 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

It's not a threshold they should have to clear. It's just that they are more likely to pay taxes than a poor person who is paid to have more babies. That was the comparison i was asked to make.

No, it wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

What level of skilled labor do you think an immigrant family (say 2 30-yr-old parents and 2.5 kids) needs to have to be a net positive to the current americans if allowed to come?

03-15-2017 , 10:13 PM

#327

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by heehaww

I wasn't even talking about restricting freedoms. Someone ITT was saying we should pay poor people to produce more babies so that they can help in the labor force. Meanwhile we're about to have millions of people losing their jobs to machines.

But I'm not automatically opposed to a restriction on freedom. What good are freedoms if you're shoulder to shoulder with everyone and barely have anything to eat?

So you don't care about people's freedom to have as many kids as they want, since you are trying to curb population growth?

You realize that when machines take over 1m jobs, the economy has expanded and the total number of jobs also goes up, right? I mean you can make a similar argument about bigger trucks or more powerful trains, bigger airplanes that carry more passengers/cargo, etc. if you consider the amount of stuff they produce as static, all those things cost jobs, but in reality people continue to consume more, do more, create more products, create new jobs. I mean, you get that, right? Right?

03-16-2017 , 03:59 AM

#328

Louis Cyphre

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

Automation can grow the economy and might still be a net negative for the majority of people.

03-16-2017 , 04:04 AM

#329

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Automation can grow the economy and might still be a net negative for the majority of people.

Might. Historically it's far from certain.

03-16-2017 , 04:17 AM

#330

Louis Cyphre

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Looking at the past 40 years almost all the growth in productivity went to the top x%.

03-16-2017 , 04:19 AM

#331

Louis Cyphre

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Quote:

Originally Posted by heehaww

Eh no, we should be curbing population growth, not accelerating it. Especially with machines taking our jerbs. (But I'm in favor of letting immigrants in.)

Nothing stops population growth like living in a rich country.

03-16-2017 , 10:33 AM

#332

Black Peter

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

No, it wasn't.

Yes, it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Why not just pay a bunch of already-here poors cash to have more babies?

03-16-2017 , 10:46 AM

#333

ElMastermind

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Looking at the past 40 years almost all the growth in productivity went to the top x%.

03-16-2017 , 01:01 PM

#334

TomCowley

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Peter

Yes, it was.

Try answering the ONLY question in the post YOU ACTUALLY QUOTED AND RESPONDED TO. Jesus christ.

03-16-2017 , 01:18 PM

#335

Black Peter

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Try answering the ONLY question in the post YOU ACTUALLY QUOTED AND RESPONDED TO. Jesus christ.

lol... you're not very smart are you? Try to keep track of your posts.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=314

03-16-2017 , 01:35 PM

#336

TomCowley

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,649

Try keeping track of your own posts first.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=319

Then keep track of mine.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=316

This isn't difficult. You just know you're about to get owned if you continue so you're tarding it up for obfuscation. Well played or something?

03-16-2017 , 01:56 PM

#337

Black Peter

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,921

Well, you just proved yourself wrong. But you probably don't even see it. lol

Quote:

You just know you're about to get owned

I see that you're one of those little squeakers that cares about winning arguments on the internet.

03-16-2017 , 02:11 PM

#338

TomCowley

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Peter

Well, you just proved yourself wrong. But you probably don't even see it. lol

I see that you're one of those little squeakers that cares about winning arguments on the internet.

Nice forum, Chez. Anybody else want to take a shot at

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

What level of skilled labor do you think an immigrant family (say 2 30-yr-old parents and 2.5 kids) needs to have to be a net positive to the current americans if allowed to come?

03-16-2017 , 02:37 PM

#339

Subterranean2

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,173

47.5 skill points or higher

03-16-2017 , 02:52 PM

#340

spanktehbadwookie

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I think the minimum* int. dex. con. and str. to qualify* as a real* exceptional* American* contributor* are 13. Magic-users, Druids, Bards, Good Clerics, Elves, Gnomes, and Dwarves* need not apply.

*other terms, conditions, or groups maybe applicable.

03-16-2017 , 03:04 PM

#341

Black Peter

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,921

lmao

03-16-2017 , 03:09 PM

#342

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Looking at the past 40 years almost all the growth in productivity went to the top x%.

what that tells me is that it's a resource allocation problem.

03-20-2017 , 09:11 PM

#343

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

what that tells me is that it's a resource allocation problem.

that depends on what your goals are. Instead of a resource allocation problem, some people would call that a resource allocation success.

03-20-2017 , 09:14 PM

#344

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Nothing stops population growth like living in a rich country.

This is VERY true.

03-25-2017 , 12:44 PM

#345

einbert

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03-26-2017 , 08:35 AM

#346

13ball

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

What level of skilled labor do you think an immigrant family (say 2 30-yr-old parents and 2.5 kids) needs to have to be a net positive to the current americans if allowed to come?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Nice forum, Chez. Anybody else want to take a shot at

The answer to your question is obviously zero.

But what's your point?

03-26-2017 , 01:33 PM

#347

TomCowley

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13ball

The answer to your question is obviously zero.

But what's your point?

Are you actually saying importing adults/families with no skills is a benefit to existing Americans or just semantikesing "needs" for corner cases of value?

03-26-2017 , 01:47 PM

#348

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Are you actually saying importing adults/families with no skills is a benefit to existing Americans or just semantikesing "needs" for corner cases of value?

Immigrations isn't an important aspect of looking at a value of a person, even though that turn of phrase is callous. There are plenty of citizens here who are at best only as skilled/educated/etc as any refugee. Do you consider their value a net-negative too? I am asking because depending on your answer, I can give you a counter argument.

03-26-2017 , 01:59 PM

#349

TomCowley

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

Of course, the average trailer park inhabitant is a net negative to the rest of society.

03-26-2017 , 02:08 PM

#350

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Of course, the average trailer park inhabitant is a net negative to the rest of society.

Great. So is it better to focus on weeding out net-negatives from our society, or is it better to focus on improving their value through some means like healthcare/education/job training?

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