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Old 01-19-2017, 01:16 AM   #151
leavesofliberty
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Re: Gender studies

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From my brief foray into a gender studies class: It's all men's fault. Especially white men.
Yah this is much of what was taught in sociology, my experience. I at least learned the background of class warfare, so it was a decent class. Got an A.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:17 AM   #152
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Re: Gender studies

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I actually think it's because white men do not join into any of these kinds of discusions unless forced.
I definately tune out race/class/gender stuff to be honest.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:26 AM   #153
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Re: Gender studies

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Yah this is much of what was taught in sociology, my experience. I at least learned the background of class warfare, so it was a decent class. Got an A.


My first sociology professor was an avid feminist and disliked male athletes. I just happened to be a male and an athlete, who was forced to miss class almost every Friday. I was also arrogant and loud spoken in my beliefs. That didn't help. Her harsh grading of me, referring to my toxic masculinity in class, and forcing me to go higher up when she refused to let me make up a test I missed due to a game, did not endear me to her or her causes.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:37 AM   #154
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Re: Gender studies

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My first sociology professor was an avid feminist and disliked male athletes. I just happened to be a male and an athlete, who was forced to miss class almost every Friday. I was also arrogant and loud spoken in my beliefs. That didn't help. Her harsh grading of me, referring to my toxic masculinity in class, and forcing me to go higher up when she refused to let me make up a test I missed due to a game, did not endear me to her or her causes.
Mine wasn't over the top preachy. I also learned about semiotics which I found to be fascinating. We also analyed movies like Hotel Rwanda.
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Old 01-19-2017, 05:19 AM   #155
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Re: Gender studies

There's a lot of classes than can turn -EV quickly with rotten professors.
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Old 01-19-2017, 05:23 AM   #156
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Re: Gender studies



all genders should fornicate
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:25 AM   #157
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Re: Gender studies

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Yah this is much of what was taught in sociology, my experience. I at least learned the background of class warfare, so it was a decent class. Got an A.
This is kind of a natural result of having run the world throughout history. Men did a lot of the good stuff too.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:17 PM   #158
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Re: Gender studies

Not sure it's been talked about but implicit bias is another study that has been discredited, even by it's authors, but is still toted as gospel. Don't have much time or I would find the relevant sources. Just a quick google search shows you how prevalent this idea still is in the mainstream arena.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:31 PM   #159
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Re: Gender studies

I think you mean the Implicit Association Test has been denied by some researchers but that is not the same as saying there is no implicit bias.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:51 PM   #160
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Re: Gender studies

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After thinking about it for a long time I came to accept that the main thing that makes you attracted to the same sex is if you're attracted to the same sex.
But if you unpack it it all makes sense....

One thing I remember learning about during my brief time being enrolled in a women's studies course is how awful women are treated in societies and how those societies in turn become awful. Like here's a thought that interconnects everything. In many countries women regularly have 5-6 kids but in those countries they don't have very many rights. Like 90% of the women in the world who have 8 kids cant read and most of those women aren't allowed to read. This in turn leads to men deciding family size often over prioritizing the importance of their own lineage. This leads to no independent life for the mother, lower prospects for her offspring, greater population and ethnic conflict. In fact all developed countries with women's rights do not have a fertility rate above 3. This will make living standards higher and more stable for everyone and save the environment all at the same time.

It also creates better societies even for men because if women have better opportunities to run businesses and make their own choices those countries overall wealth will be higher....

Also I felt kind of out of place the whole time and didn't feel like I could share my stories at the time. One thing about gender studies discussions is they cant really be complete if men aren't involved in those discussions too. SO what I'm saying is I think it's important that straight white guys become much more informed about the effects of abuse, discrimination, lack of opportunity. I also think it would help if straight guys actually took an interest in women's sexuality and lgbt sexuality so they could get more perspectives and understand that they are being judged too and to become comfortable with that.
Thanks for your thoughts. I've quoted the parts I enjoyed reading the most.

On the topic of straight men being more involved in these discussions, I think it's an interesting point. Recently I've been helping with some technical/programming work related to a sociological content analysis of the men's rights movement subreddit. So I ended up reading through a number of threads. One thing that struck me is that I think there's plenty of room (intellectually speaking) for feminists and the men in this movement to find common ground. The MRAs often bring up problems that feminists would describe as being related to hegemonic gender roles and norms. Theoretically, both sides could see these things as problems with the same basic cause. But, because the men's rights movement is so heavily anti-feminist they don't seem to recognize this possibility at all.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:22 PM   #161
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Re: Gender studies

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I think you mean the Implicit Association Test has been denied by some researchers but that is not the same as saying there is no implicit bias.
That test is the foundation the whole edifice of implicit bias stood on for it's credibility. Like I said, even it's own authors refute it now. Also, if you read how that study was conducted it was an extremely flawed method. I'm not saying there is not implicit bias simply stating that a lot of the "science" around it is bunk. It gets trotted out all the time in gender studies/ ethnic studies literature.

I think you can make the argument that the whole theory is quite dangerous/ insidious if applied in the right manner, similar to eugenics. It's basis is that groups of people, specifically white people or dominant cultures, are inherently flawed and racist. It leaves no door open for independent thought and changing attitudes. Also, it covertly tells it's audience that white people/ men are the root of all evil for minority groups. If you are forwarding a thesis like that it better be solidly represented with scientific evidence; not some garbage study that basically measures how fast someone can make word associations and click a mouse. It makes the assumption that someone makes a snap judgement and they never change that decision.

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Old 01-19-2017, 01:31 PM   #162
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Re: Gender studies

One of the authors runs project implicit, take your time but I'd like a link to the authors discrediting the work.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:30 PM   #163
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Re: Gender studies

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Thanks for your thoughts. I've quoted the parts I enjoyed reading the most.

On the topic of straight men being more involved in these discussions, I think it's an interesting point. Recently I've been helping with some technical/programming work related to a sociological content analysis of the men's rights movement subreddit. So I ended up reading through a number of threads. One thing that struck me is that I think there's plenty of room (intellectually speaking) for feminists and the men in this movement to find common ground. The MRAs often bring up problems that feminists would describe as being related to hegemonic gender roles and norms. Theoretically, both sides could see these things as problems with the same basic cause. But, because the men's rights movement is so heavily anti-feminist they don't seem to recognize this possibility at all.
This is very true and I can think of several times I've seen the arguments sailing past each other.

One example that's long stood out is the argument about custody hearings. The MRAs see an implicit bias against men. The feminists see an implicit bias against women. One claiming it's because courts see men as bad, the other that courts see women's role being primary care giver to children. Yet whenever I've seen this in an actual to and fro discussion I'm yet to see an MRA figure out they want the same thing. Whereas, feminist sources often acknowledge that men are harmed by patriarchal ideas.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:38 PM   #164
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Re: Gender studies

It's a good example.

With custody specifically, I think to some extent it's a survival from an earlier era, and an example of how institutions change at uneven rates. The earliest men's rights movements in the 70s focused on child custody and I think they had a pretty reasonable argument that the courts were systematically favoring women. But I think feminists were right in suggesting that a large part of that favoritism was the cultural survival of ideas about child-rearing as a fundamentally feminine role. Culture was changing and feminism making inroads faster than legal institutions were adjusting. I haven't been able to find very satisfactory data on this question in the present but the data I've seen suggests that the courts have adjusted and that most custody decisions are arrived at by mutual agreement of the parents, with the court merely signing off on their wishes.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:57 PM   #165
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Re: Gender studies

Exactly. It's a good example of how deconstructing gender roles can favour both sides, and also of the occasionally counter-intuitive point that patriarchy is harmful to men and women alike, just in differing areas and degrees. However, in the limited experience I have with MRA material, I've only ever seen it listed supposed evidence that patriarchy is fiction and men are suffering, typically with no social theory attached.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:41 AM   #166
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Re: Gender studies

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Thanks for your thoughts. I've quoted the parts I enjoyed reading the most.

On the topic of straight men being more involved in these discussions, I think it's an interesting point. Recently I've been helping with some technical/programming work related to a sociological content analysis of the men's rights movement subreddit. So I ended up reading through a number of threads. One thing that struck me is that I think there's plenty of room (intellectually speaking) for feminists and the men in this movement to find common ground. The MRAs often bring up problems that feminists would describe as being related to hegemonic gender roles and norms. Theoretically, both sides could see these things as problems with the same basic cause. But, because the men's rights movement is so heavily anti-feminist they don't seem to recognize this possibility at all.
Hi well named thanks for talking to me. I want to comment on this post but I'm too tired right now. I would say I basically agree we've reached a really interesting point in time in regards to gender roles and it could be a golden age for people to reach a common consensus with viewpoints from all sides if we have a real dialogue. Like im too tired to type it out but basically we need groups like mra and feminists to have honest dialogues with each other. I f someone tells me they think the gays are evil I don't feel like that should have to be the end of the discussion. i don't know how much effort I can put into it but I definitely elaborate on this later.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:49 AM   #167
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Re: Gender studies

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What mental issues are you dealing with and what prescriptions are you taking for them?
I don't really feel like answering this question very much today except to say im a normal and healthy person
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:21 AM   #168
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Re: Gender studies

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That test is the foundation the whole edifice of implicit bias stood on for it's credibility. Like I said, even it's own authors refute it now. Also, if you read how that study was conducted it was an extremely flawed method. I'm not saying there is not implicit bias simply stating that a lot of the "science" around it is bunk. It gets trotted out all the time in gender studies/ ethnic studies literature.

I think you can make the argument that the whole theory is quite dangerous/ insidious if applied in the right manner, similar to eugenics. It's basis is that groups of people, specifically white people or dominant cultures, are inherently flawed and racist. It leaves no door open for independent thought and changing attitudes. Also, it covertly tells it's audience that white people/ men are the root of all evil for minority groups. If you are forwarding a thesis like that it better be solidly represented with scientific evidence; not some garbage study that basically measures how fast someone can make word associations and click a mouse. It makes the assumption that someone makes a snap judgement and they never change that decision.
Yeah i already linked the articles here

People in this thread don't seem to want to understand what is going on and their argument is that I haven't taught them or convinced the of what is going on in these types of programs. These programs are bogus nonsense that create and encourage political activism. People don't understand the absurdity on college campuses and the root of it. People should familiarize themselves with the nonsense activism and social justice on campuses and think about where it is coming from. Do you really think its in contradiction with their social courses? Its in contradiction with mainstream biology though. The defense for all of this is the usual, frothing at the mouth rage and labelling rational adult with some sort of damaging title and going after their career/ Livelihood



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Old 01-20-2017, 02:41 AM   #169
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Re: Gender studies

It begs a follow up, how well would Sam Harris do in said class?
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:47 AM   #170
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Re: Gender studies

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I don't really feel like answering this question very much today except to say im a normal and healthy person
I dont think your mentally healthy or have strong social skills. One or the other and possibly both. I think things like gender studies appeal to people with low social inllegence. This is probably why we are finding out that social outcasts are gravitating towards them the most and there is a vindictive nature to the sjw's that buy in to it

Rationally it makes sense for social outcasts to buy in to flawed social theories just like bad poker players can't easily spots scammy poker coaching. Your lack of skill creates the need and then the lack of skill makes it difficult to distinguish between good coaching and bad

Being gay and not knowing it seems far less common than just being gay. Being gay and having no friends is far less common than being gay and having friends. Being gay and then isolating yourself in college seems less common also. Im sure theres lots of people that share a similar story but i would guess its easily a small minority. This looks to me like weak social skills/intelligence or possibly something more serious. In either cases it makes a lot of sense for you and people in you situation along the spectrum of outcasts to buy in to the narrative and behave in a vindictive manner creating activism

I believe i already linked articles of women teaching men courses on the problems with their masculinity. Right from the testimonials a man describes how it enlightened him on how hes tried to fit in. I thnk it doesn't occur to outcasts that they are outcasts (outcast probably not the best word to use) and that the reason they find themselves describing things as social construct far too often is because what is completely natural to the majority doesnt feel natural to them at all. Most people's physiology creates different behaviour and "outcasts" seem to be different and resent the consequences. Reputable scientists are now claiming there is some studies quantifying the purple haired angry sjw girl and the weak jawed beta male sjw stereotypes
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Old 01-20-2017, 04:24 AM   #171
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Re: Gender studies

Being gay is obv okay.
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:21 AM   #172
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Re: Gender studies

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I dont think your mentally healthy or have strong social skills. One or the other and possibly both. I think things like gender studies appeal to people with low social inllegence. This is probably why we are finding out that social outcasts are gravitating towards them the most and there is a vindictive nature to the sjw's that buy in to it
In the context of the rest of your post this displays an incredible lack of self awareness.
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:59 AM   #173
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Re: Gender studies

How did you only bold the first sentence? The entire thing reads like satire, but it sadly is not.

We're at about round 12 of asking OP for actual evidence of his claims in the OP about curriculum and such. I'm sure that is coming instead of anecdotal youtubes of MRA type guys any post now! You attack other people for their social skills, but have gotten banned on an internet website for sexism and I really doubt you have ever been to university or in the environments you are lauding.
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Old 01-20-2017, 07:03 AM   #174
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Re: Gender studies

The rest of it is satire but the first sentence I thought stood out because the rest of the post demonstrates that juan is entirely lacking in social skills.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:03 AM   #175
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Re: Gender studies

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The rest of it is satire but the first sentence I thought stood out because the rest of the post demonstrates that juan is entirely lacking in social skills.
That was the obvious, unoriginal, and empty response i was expecting although i wasnt sure how fast it was going to come. Im sure hes going to admit having weak social skills himself. I mean thats not some magic high level read or harsh criticism. If you have trouble making friends, isolate yourself, aren't happy, and medicating yourself with alcohol, its kind of a given

I realize calling out an absurd rise in irrational and socially retared behavior on the left isnt going to win me any popularity contests here but the harsh truth is just a reality check for those that are offended. I posted multiple professors and psychologists making the same observations itt
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