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Old 04-26-2017, 07:51 PM   #176
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Re: Free speech

Ahahaah ****ing Christ NVM why do I even bother with these Rhodes Scholars?




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Originally Posted by Gustafson26 View Post
@chezlaw

So because sounds are flowing out of her mouth it is ok to violate her 1st amendment? It's one thing if she was telling the people to act violently and go outside and attack the people out there with conflicting viewpoints, but if she is simply stating her opinion and how she feels, no need to prevent her talking to a group of people who invited her to speak.
Opinions are like @ssholess, we all have one and they all stink to everyone else. Well, unless of course you're into that kind of thing.
Read chez' response again.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:53 PM   #177
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Re: Free speech

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It was sloppy wording on my part and yeah I conflated two things. I think she was joking but even assuming that she wasn't, saying something as dumb as that doesn't strip her of her 1st amendment rights. That's all I was saying.

I also don't know what it means to say there should be no restrictions on free speech. For example, crimes committed using words isn't a form of protected speech obviously.
Fair enough. I was making the general point that people who think free speech is sacrosanct often seem to assume that they are the ones who are correct about it's value vs others who are mistaken. That doesn't lead anywhere as the debate is about the pros and cons of free speech. It's not clear that those who want more restrictions disagree about the upsides of free speech - I might even think it has a bigger upside than those who think it should be less restricted.

Just re universities in particular. I don't see this as a free speech issue at all as free speech doesn't imply that an institution has to allow anyone to speak. If the law disagrees then the law is a ass.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:55 PM   #178
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by TheMadcap View Post
Political dissent is the most important speech to protect for reasons I'd image are self evident. Flag burning is just a crude/uninspired form of that.
The problem is the same lunatics are the ones protesting/rioting. They have shown they are no more than a bunch of hoodlums. Obviously the more rational liberals don't care enough to put a stop to this nonsense. Therefore, liberals have lost their rights to protest in my opinion.

I'd say conservatives can continue to protest, but conservatives don't protest/riot.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:58 PM   #179
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Re: Free speech

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Do want to put people in jail for it?
I think they should be deported. You don't like this country? Bbye now!
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:58 PM   #180
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Re: Free speech

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You were pointing out the hypocrisy of the right, correct? Why else would you specifically look for Ann Coulter saying things that go against the principles of the first amendment?

Fair enough. Republicans are hypocrites. But if your concern is actually free speech, what is happening at Berkeley just is the bigger deal right now. I don't like what Trump or Coulter said but they are just words at this point.
I see it difrent and am more worried about my government oppressing it then college, left or right since both do, baring speakers.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:01 PM   #181
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Re: Free speech

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I'm not sure I'll ever get over how, in this postMAGA universe, the actual Nazis are never the Nazis in the Nazi analogies.
If Hitler were alive and went to speak at Berkley and sent the SS to burn and destroy the place how would you feel?
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:03 PM   #182
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Re: Free speech

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I think they should be deported. You don't like this country? Bbye now!
Very American of you. You don't seem to like free speech so maybe you should move your flat to somewhere that is not an issue.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:09 PM   #183
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Re: Free speech

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Very American of you. You don't seem to like free speech so maybe you should move your flat to somewhere that is not an issue.
I don't have time to talk the draft is tomorrow. If you all wanna talk NFL draft maybe we can change this to the NFL draft thread. I got work to do.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:13 PM   #184
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
Fair enough. I was making the general point that people who think free speech is sacrosanct often seem to assume that they are the ones who are correct about it's value vs others who are mistaken. That doesn't lead anywhere as the debate is about the pros and cons of free speech. It's not clear that those who want more restrictions disagree about the upsides of free speech - I might even think it has a bigger upside than those who think it should be less restricted.

Just re universities in particular. I don't see this as a free speech issue at all as free speech doesn't imply that an institution has to allow anyone to speak. If the law disagrees then the law is a ass.
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I see it difrent and am more worried about my government oppressing it then college, left or right since both do, baring speakers.
These go after the same thing so I'll address them together. If Berkeley were a private school and some % of their students signed a petition saying they didn't want someone to speak, of course there would be no free speech issue.

I'm not sure what (if anything) changes at a public school but it absolutely does become a free speech issue with the cancellation being done under threat/fear of violence. The government has an obligation to protect speech that is being shut down through illegal means. Part of the first amendment has to be using government force to stop others from using force to shut down speech.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:15 PM   #185
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Re: Free speech

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Therefore, liberals have lost their rights to protest in my opinion.
I don't know what this sentence means but if it's meant to be taken literally than you are just wrong. They can still protest. That's also protected by the first amendment.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:21 PM   #186
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Re: Free speech

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These go after the same thing so I'll address them together. If Berkeley were a private school and some % of their students signed a petition saying they didn't want someone to speak, of course there would be no free speech issue.

I'm not sure what (if anything) changes at a public school but it absolutely does become a free speech issue with the cancellation being done under threat/fear of violence. The government has an obligation to protect speech that is being shut down through illegal means. Part of the first amendment has to be using government force to stop others from using force to shut down speech.
Didn't say it was no issue said I see trump and the right as a bigger one.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:43 PM   #187
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Re: Free speech

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If Hitler were alive and went to speak at Berkley and sent the SS to burn and destroy the place how would you feel?
So both sides are the Nazis? I'm not sure you understand how analogies, or words for that matter, work.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:46 PM   #188
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by TheMadcap View Post
I'm not sure what (if anything) changes at a public school but it absolutely does become a free speech issue with the cancellation being done under threat/fear of violence. The government has an obligation to protect speech that is being shut down through illegal means. Part of the first amendment has to be using government force to stop others from using force to shut down speech.
I'd disagree but only about it being a free speech issue. Any violence/intimidation used to prevent an institution carrying out it's lawful activities is (and should be illegal) irrespective of the 1st amendment.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:03 PM   #189
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by juan valdez View Post
the problem embedded in your whole pov and the far left is the maternal instinct associated with trait agreeableness becoming totally off balance. being empathetic isnt a virtue. like everything else, if it becomes totally off balance it is extremely damaging and toxic. this true on the individual level, in the family structure, and in a society. i think explaining this in detail would probably require its own thread. in direct response to your post here, you don't treat adults like children. thats also a disaster on the individual level as well as in a society. this is the most coddled and "privileged" generation in the history of planet earth. its nice to be safe and comfortable but when a generation is bred to have peter pan syndrome, its going to have consequences
You're mistaken if you think I don't consider the downsides of restricting free speech as well as the upsides, I have reached a view over several decades that I believe minimises the harm overall. You may believe you are right and I am wrong, you may even be correct but the error is not because I'm trying to be agreeable.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'being empathetic isn't a virtue'. It's part of being human and if I didn't have empathy then I wouldn't give a **** about most of politics. I dare say it's the same for you - these issues don't affect us enough to be so bothered by them otherwise.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:39 PM   #190
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
I'd disagree but only about it being a free speech issue. Any violence/intimidation used to prevent an institution carrying out it's lawful activities is (and should be illegal) irrespective of the 1st amendment.
Yeah, it seems I was just wrong about that. Oops.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:41 PM   #191
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Re: Free speech

I'm not sure if this empathy thing is in reference to Paul Bloom but his book sold me on the idea that it does kind of suck.

Compassion is great though.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:08 PM   #192
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
The problem is the same lunatics are the ones protesting/rioting. They have shown they are no more than a bunch of hoodlums. Obviously the more rational liberals don't care enough to put a stop to this nonsense. Therefore, liberals have lost their rights to protest in my opinion.

I'd say conservatives can continue to protest, but conservatives don't protest/riot.
Conservative abortion protesters have broken the law and have even killed.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:16 PM   #193
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by TheMadcap View Post
I'm not sure if this empathy thing is in reference to Paul Bloom but his book sold me on the idea that it does kind of suck.

Compassion is great though.
I fear a semantic quagmire if we go there but a quick read of his article in the guardian suggests it's irrelevant to this discussion. He makes the mistake of thinking we will account for the emphatic feelings in a highly irrational way when forming political views - sure many will but they are going to be highly irrational whichever way they go.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:37 PM   #194
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Re: Free speech

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I don't have time to talk the draft is tomorrow. If you all wanna talk NFL draft maybe we can change this to the NFL draft thread. I got work to do.
Giving a **** about the NFL draft is stupid.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:40 PM   #195
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Re: Free speech

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How is burning a flag a form of free speech? This is stupid. These people need to be charged with treason....simple.

Who Came up with the idea you can burn the American flag?

These sumbags better not do it in front of me.
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I think there comes a time when rights need to be taken away. If you can't behave like a polished human then you lose your rights.

We need to shut these protests down before they get started. Agitators need to be dealt with harshly.
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Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
The problem is the same lunatics are the ones protesting/rioting. They have shown they are no more than a bunch of hoodlums. Obviously the more rational liberals don't care enough to put a stop to this nonsense. Therefore, liberals have lost their rights to protest in my opinion.

I'd say conservatives can continue to protest, but conservatives don't protest/riot.
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I think they should be deported. You don't like this country? Bbye now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
If Hitler were alive and went to speak at Berkley and sent the SS to burn and destroy the place how would you feel?
I don't think you should be arrested, tried, and convicted of a crime for making these posts. That's how strongly I believe in free speech!
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:57 PM   #196
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Re: Free speech

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Giving a **** about the NFL draft is stupid.
Oh! Now I get it😉
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:58 PM   #197
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Re: Free speech

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I don't think you should be arrested, tried, and convicted of a crime for making these posts. That's how strongly I believe in free speech!
Because I haven't broken any laws.

Last edited by mongidig; 04-27-2017 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:00 AM   #198
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Re: Free speech

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Conservative abortion protesters have broken the law and have even killed.
These people are freaks too. You people protest/riot everything though. Often times you don't even know what riot you're attending.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:09 AM   #199
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Re: Free speech

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Oh! Now I get it😉
You get what? That I'm not a child?
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:10 AM   #200
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Re: Free speech

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These people are freaks too.
If they break the law they should be punished, but i see nothing wrong with them protesting for something they believe in. America!!

Quote:
You people protest/riot everything though. Often times you don't even know what riot you're attending.
Im not a part of any people afaik. I know that is part of the stick. Anyone who disagrees is they and protest = riot.


Like i said you should move your flat somewhere that makes you more happy. There are all kinds of places which dont allow the right to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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