This conflation of a fear of Islam and fear of muslims is insane.

"And (We sent) Lot when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people. And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves). So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind. And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty."

"The Prophet said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."

Presumably a person can fear a literal interpretation of these verses gaining traction without holding any prejudice against individual muslims, right?

(To save someone the googling, I have a similar fear of the Christian analogue of that verse gaining traction. That doesn't mean I fear christians.

Pointing out the discrepancy in the polling data* with regards to these and other topics would also not be bigoted...)

Pretending that you can't draw a straight line from these texts to certain unacceptable actions/beliefs is not the way to stop racism and the claim that Islam needs to go through a reformation should not be a controversial one.

*Only in three countries do as many as one-in-ten Muslims say that homosexuality is morally acceptable: Uganda (12%), Mozambique (11%) and Bangladesh (10%). http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/t...iety-morality/

Agreed TheMadcap.

It's like saying I fear Communism, I do not fear Russians.

More professors are being physically threatened.

I'm sure The Rubin Report will cover these incidents any time now.

Of course. The obvious solution is to support moderate Muslims.

Saying that shooting up gay nightclubs is a tenant of Islam is stupid, wrong and harmful.

You mean he'll discuss "“nonspecific, noncredible” threats. Nothing to see here.

What is the level of support for homosexuality in Islamic majority countries? Please link studies. Thank you.

It is unreasonable to fear Islam, as a religion comprised of people who call themselves Muslims, it has no faculty itself with which to pose any clear and present danger.

It is unreasonable to fear Muslims, unless someone who calls themselves Muslim appears to be a clear and present danger.

It is reasonable to fear clear and present dangers.

Hope this helps.

So you think it would be unreasonable to fear the proliferation of white nationalist ideas?

Clear and present, huh?

You must have been ecstatic when we pulled out of the Paris Climate Accords then. Cool.

I obviously agree that the way forward is to empower moderate muslims to promote less rigid interpretations of the texts.

I was just triggered by the use of the term islamophobia which I think is also stupid, wrong and harmful.

Imam Tawhidi seems to be doing some good work. Worth a follow on Twitter - https://twitter.com/imamofpeace?lang=en

Is it reasonable to fear thoughts?

That's funny coming from someone who supports Thought Policing. I mean, I agree - the Left's fear of thoughts are irrational. Fearing actions however is another matter entirely...

It does seem "stupid ,wrong and harmful" to fear Islam, particularly for Muslims. The reasons why are found in examining what people tend to do when they are afraid.

This is only funny because it is dishonest and audacious. You are playing games and I know it.

Yes.

I don't think the term "Islamaphobia" is intended to refer to merely strong disagreement or aversion to specific dogmas or practices of various Muslim groups or governments. I would be absolutely opposed to the US government adopting policies like Saudi Arabia, but I'm not very worried about it happening. I am worried about and strongly opposed to ISIS, and I worry about ongoing problems with radical Islamist groups and tensions related to refugees from various countries. None of those things make me "Islamaphobic" imo, but when people use the term I don't believe that is what they are claiming.

Instead, they are usually using the term to refer to responses to the above problems that are over-generalized, irrational, or otherwise unnecessarily and harmfully prejudicial. There can definitely be a debate about what sort of responses qualify, and which don't, but imo the fact that many Muslims for example support laws involving homosexuality which are bigoted is neither here nor there with regard to the question of Islamaphobia. One can strongly oppose those laws and that specific element of Islamic practice without being Islamaphobic, but one can also be opposed in a way that is Islamaphobic, and it really comes down to how specifically you respond and what actions you try to justify.

So any Christians who don't "support homosexuality" want to kill gays too? Your arguments are getting stupider.

Well named though - that's the point though. The Thought Police have used the blanket term "Islamophobia" to mean, anyone who opposes anything to do with Islam. It's in their playbook. When people use that term, it's easy to see through their meaning.

I think the Finsbury park incident is exactly what we're afraid of. The Mayor of London says terrorist attacks are "part and parcel" of big city life, citizens aren't going to tolerate it. It does not have to be this way. Nobody wants vigilante justice, but even less so do we want politicians who fail to protect citizens.

The response after Manchester shouldn't be "Meh, whaddya gonna do?"

I don't see any studies backing up your position.

There's this place called Google though - you might try it sometime.

Perhaps you could find the laws in Islamic countries on the penalties for homosexuality - that might be a good place to start for you.

You keep using insults. You're as if an ant quarreling with a boot.

No doubt there are people who apply term more liberally than I would. For example, there was a discussion in this thread about the SPLC's "Anti-Muslim Extremist" list. But I disagree with the assertion that this is how the term is used by the majority of people who use it. I especially disagree with regard to this forum, and the discussions that have taken place here. In any case, the application of terms like this is always going to be contentious. That doesn't mean the term never applies. The guy who committed the terrorist attack at Finsbury Park is a great example of Islamaphobia.

JiggyMac - the poor man's TruthSlayer.

Your argument is that is if you follow Islam that you support people shooting up gay nightclubs. That's a lie that you cannot support. You won't even try.

You are half right. It does feel like I'm arguing with a boot.

I think you're dead wrong. It is used for the exact purpose it tries to convey. It is persuasion of the highest form and is a very targeted statement that elicits the reaction it is designed to. The true number of Islmophobes is insignificant in terms of their political power.

That said, the Finsbury Park incident wasn't completely random.

The previous Imam, Abu Hamza Al-Masri radicalized a number of terrorists from that Mosque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finsbury_Park_Mosque

Obviously he was unaware of the Mosque's reformation, but it's not as if there's a history there.


Once again, he was wrong, it was ineffective, and a tragedy. However, the root issue still remains radical Islam and a British government unwilling to address it.

That's not my argument at all, but your mis-characterization is noted.