Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics version 7.0 more politics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2017, 05:35 PM   #26
Bladesman87
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,197
Re: Free speech

I feel like there's going to be some follow up here, so can someone clarify for me if in fact students at US universities can invited whoever to say whatever and the university is legally obligated to provide the time and money to make that happen?

Seems like a bad system to me.
Bladesman87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 05:56 PM   #27
Bladesman87
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,197
Re: Free speech

The trick to being a free speech absolutist is to not notice the irony when you later call anonymous jokes libel.
Bladesman87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 06:37 PM   #28
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 14,560
Re: Free speech

History is always an interesting subject and just as important, how it is written and presented and perceived by later generations:

Free_Speech_Movement at Berkley

free-speech-movement-timeline/
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 06:51 PM   #29
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Station keeping
Posts: 9,607
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive View Post
What in the **** is this ****** talking about?
Unprovoked personal attack #2 in this thread. "this *******" is a personal attack.

Why no action taken by moderators?
Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 07:17 PM   #30
Noodle Wazlib
just about tolerable
 
Noodle Wazlib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Drowning in robot chocolate
Posts: 9,651
Re: Free speech

What did the mod say when you reported the post/attempted to remove someone else's free speech?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post


Quote:
... I can't believe you have to remind liberals of this... It’s a shame. Liberals are creating a fantasy land on college campuses that does not exist in the real world.
The true irony here being that Maher is doing exactly what he's accusing others of: buying into the right-wing fantasy about safe spaces on college campuses and not taking the time to learn anything about reality.
Noodle Wazlib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 08:33 PM   #31
5ive
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harvard, in a place like Africa
Posts: 6,156
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post
Unprovoked personal attack #2 in this thread. "this *******" is a personal attack.

Why no action taken by moderators?

I literally just typed multiple asterisks to troll you.
5ive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 09:19 PM   #32
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,743
Re: Free speech

One of your own Bill Maher just crushed you all and he's absolutely correct. I find it funny that people from from lesser civilized parts of the world are trying to argue first amenment rights.

You support the rights of the protestors/rioters but not the civilized folks who are trying to educate you all. I have a feeling if you let these people speak and listened to the message there would be far less of you unenployed and angry at the world.

I feel like I'm shopping at Walmart when I read this forum.

Lapidator is crushing it.
mongidig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 09:32 PM   #33
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,743
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib View Post
What did the mod say when you reported the post/attempted to remove someone else's free speech?



The true irony here being that Maher is doing exactly what he's accusing others of: buying into the right-wing fantasy about safe spaces on college campuses and not taking the time to learn anything about reality.
Did you watch the video? You're the ones who are out of touch with reality. Thank god you people only exist in forums and protests/riots.
mongidig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 10:14 PM   #34
AllTheCheese
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AllTheCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sad life; won't change
Posts: 9,242
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by The US Constitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Nor shall the ability to give paid speeches on university property ever be in any way impeded.
.
AllTheCheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 10:54 PM   #35
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 32,194
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post
Unprovoked personal attack #2 in this thread. "this *******" is a personal attack.

Why no action taken by moderators?
This moderator was saying a long and loving goodbye to two long cherished bottles of wine (among other things)

I have now acted - there's no free speech here.
chezlaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:24 PM   #36
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
One of your own Bill Maher just crushed you all and he's absolutely correct. I find it funny that people from from lesser civilized parts of the world are trying to argue first amenment rights.

You support the rights of the protestors/rioters but not the civilized folks who are trying to educate you all. I have a feeling if you let these people speak and listened to the message there would be far less of you unenployed and angry at the world.

I feel like I'm shopping at Walmart when I read this forum.

Lapidator is crushing it.
You called for ending right to assemble and protest the government peacefully.

Id guess Lapidator would disagree but i could be wrong since many on the right seem blind to oppression of freedom of speech unless its on liberal college or sub forum on the internet.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:34 PM   #37
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,743
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
You called for ending right to assemble and protest the government peacefully.

Id guess Lapidator would disagree but i could be wrong since many on the right seem blind to oppression of freedom of speech unless its on liberal college or sub forum on the internet.
You have uneducated people and criminals protesting. There is nothing peacefull about it. These dummies destroy their own neighborhoods and schools.

I'm thinking it's time to bring in Bikers for Trump. Shut these weasels down.

You rarely see conservatives protesting because they have jobs.
mongidig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:52 PM   #38
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

You said it about the womens march, the largest most peaceful march in the history of the US.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:58 PM   #39
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post

You rarely see conservatives protesting because they have jobs.
And if they have jobs why are they bitching and making protesting jestration about jobs. That makes no sense.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:59 PM   #40
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Station keeping
Posts: 9,607
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
You called for ending right to assemble and protest the government peacefully.

Id guess Lapidator would disagree but i could be wrong since many on the right seem blind to oppression of freedom of speech unless its on liberal college or sub forum on the internet.
The short answer is...

1) violent protest is never permissible. (Violent resistance is however ok, just make sure you are willing to accept the consequences of losing. Protest and resistance are not the same thing.)

2) free speech rights do not limit other free speech rights. You cannot scream at the top of your lungs to prevent me from speaking. If folks want to assemble peacefully to hear what I have to say, then you have no right to interfere. It is not "protected free political speech" for you to prevent others from speaking or listening.
Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:01 PM   #41
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 41,300
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
You have uneducated people and criminals protesting. There is nothing peacefull about it. These dummies destroy their own neighborhoods and schools.

I'm thinking it's time to bring in Bikers for Trump. Shut these weasels down.

You rarely see conservatives protesting because they have jobs.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:02 PM   #42
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

Ugg apologetics for one of your own was not my guess. Noted.

Anyway even if you disagree with and condemn violent protest, you still dont call for an end to the right to protest all together. Which is what mongidig did.

Last edited by batair; 04-23-2017 at 01:11 PM.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:21 PM   #43
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Station keeping
Posts: 9,607
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
Ugg apologetics for one of your own was not my guess. Noted.

Anyway even if you disagree with and condemn violent protest, you still dont call for an end to the right to protest all together. Which is what mongidig did.
Where did mongidig do that?

I don't see it iit.
Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:26 PM   #44
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

A thread a while back when the womens march made trump look bad.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:28 PM   #45
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,743
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
You said it about the womens march, the largest most peaceful march in the history of the US.
Oh is that the one were they were protesting their rights being taken away even though that's not true?

Oh is that the peaceful protest were they threatened to blow up the White House?
mongidig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:31 PM   #46
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

Again that does not matter. You called for the ending of the right to assemble. Should be enough said. Free speech, right...
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 02:27 PM   #47
13ball
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
13ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No Quarter is a Sandy Hook Truther
Posts: 12,300
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
A+
13ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 02:58 PM   #48
13ball
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
13ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No Quarter is a Sandy Hook Truther
Posts: 12,300
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
I feel like there's going to be some follow up here, so can someone clarify for me if in fact students at US universities can invited whoever to say whatever and the university is legally obligated to provide the time and money to make that happen?

Seems like a bad system to me.
As far as I know, this is correct. Student groups are allowed to invite whomever they please and the University is obligated to provide a space. This makes sense in that you want free inquiry and don't want the government deciding what is and isn't an appropriate idea.

However, that doesn't mean that the university couldn't argue that certain speakers would create mayhem that could be too dangerous or too onerous. If Berkeley Republicans start inviting every commenter from St0rmfr0nt to speak, then the subsequent protests and disruptions would cost millions and millions of dollars. Berkeley could then create a rule respecting speakers that sought to relieve the burden without singling out any particular ideology. This would be challenged in the courts, of course.

In this case it appears Berkeley cancelled the appearance because of safety concerns, claiming that they could not find a venue that would provide appropriate security on the date in question and that they had specific evidence of threats. If those are both true, then that seems perfectly reasonable. There is no first amendment right to conduct a speech on a specific date or at a specific time. The university is now willing to allow Coulter to speak on a different date, so there doesn't seem to be a first amendment issue anymore.

Are they lying about the threats, the venues and etc.? Maybe, but I'm not aware of any evidence. If they did lie, then they would almost certainly lose a lawsuit.
13ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 03:11 PM   #49
Huehuecoyotl
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Huehuecoyotl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: It's hard to get by on a smile
Posts: 21,974
Re: Free speech

Ann Coulter is a sh*tty person, anyone who thinks Ann Coulter has any actually good opinions is a sh*tty person. People who claim they're all about Free Speech while absolutely cheering Ann Coulter on actually like Ann Coulter's sh*tty opinions but wants to hide behind the First Amendment which makes then sh*tty people.
Huehuecoyotl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 03:50 PM   #50
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 14,023
Re: Free speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
Oh is that the one were they were protesting their rights being taken away even though that's not true?

Oh is that the peaceful protest were they threatened to blow up the White House?
Wait i might of overlooked something. That could matter if you want to trade one treasonish celebrity words for another and have them both go to jail.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online