It's an intentional trap Fly sets to lure victims into his web. His avatar is a huge part of it. Once someone reveals a minor racial bias such as this, it's a lot easier to paint them as racist for the lols.

This point is only relevant to DIB's claim if it then follows that these same people tempered their posts once they learned Fly was actually white, because his criticisms then carried "much, much more weight" to them.

I assume you agree this is laughably not the case.

I never let an avatar influence who I think someone is... if I did I would think half the people posting here are lingerie models. Similarly, I assume people don't assume I'm a bald toddler. (knock on wood)

I don't think its a trap at all. And to be honest with you, by virtue of the fact that this is a poker forum with a mostly US users - I kind of assume everyone is a young white male unless they indicate otherwise.

I think you need to reconsider your assumptions. I'm confident that the leading reason why new people assume Fly is black is because (and I've heard people on the forum express as much) that someone so concerned about racism against blacks must be black. Certainly there are exceptions, but I'd bet I'm right that someone who has racial biases is more likely to assume anyone so concerned about racism has to be a minority. Just like a lot of people assume feminists have to be women.

Ctyri, dumbass, you're failing at reading in multiple threads. Just call it a day and maybe tomorrow, once the froth subsides, your eyes will function properly again.

I have at no point disagreed with what you're saying.

I'm reading fine. Show your work on how Fly's criticisms became much more impactful to his targets after they realized he was white.

That is precisely your claim after all.

Think about it this way. At work, pretend it's about a 4:1 male/female ratio. Person A hears Person B (male) say something sexist about Person C (female). Person A intervenes, telling Person B the reasons why his comments were sexist.

Do you think the gender of Person A will influence how the message is received by Person B?

I don't have a list of prior Fly rage targets, nor have I asked anyone how learning Fly was white influenced their feelings about what Fly told them. What I know about communication and contemporary race relations...ESPECIALLY when dealing with accusations of racism...is that the race of those involved influences how messages are received. This is in part why majority culture social change allies are so important; when they overhear racist **** from other white people and intervene, there are far fewer defenses raised in response by the offender. In other words, it's much more likely a message from "one of us" gets through, and it's much less likely that it will be dismissed.

This is such a surreal conversation.

DiB: Racist white people are more likely to listen to other white people than black people.

Mob: WTF? Prove it!

Preeettty sure that's a defining ****ing feature of racism.

But hey, you wanna know what IS surreal? You and others asking for "proof" that racist white people are more likely to listen to other white people than black people.

Aren't you the one trying to act like Yoda these days? Doesn't exactly take a mental giant to figure this **** out. Like, start with Googling racism and communication, see what you find.

Pretty sure he was taking your side there against the "mob".

It's funny how this:

has morphed into "racists believe what white people say more than what black people say because they're racist!"

Gotta save face somehow

Ah. Noted, and I take back my snark.

Several people I've called out for racism have said "I don't hate black people, just ******s". You think a black person gets that response from them?

LK, what's perhaps most interesting about this whole derail is that you and others are supporting my very point ITT. Like, it's no secret I'm not on team #dudeliterally with you/Giz/Fly/Goofy/whoever, and similarly that I'm generally considered an out-group member ITF. I strongly believe that if what I said came from one of the aforementioned posters you'd just nod along. Why? Because it's not controversial, and because you wouldn't have any emotional barriers.

What we're talking about is group identity and communication. Assuming Fly's targets are usually racist, they've got (obviously) very strong in-group identification. I'm having a very hard time understanding your incredulity, at least for reasons other than what was mentioned in the paragraph above. Like, why is it so perplexing for you that criticism coming from out-group members will be responded to differently than from in-group members? It's almost like part of the "Colorblind society" bull****.

Gotta side with DiB here, it's not like you can 'show your work' on this as cytri wants (lol), but seems pretty intuitive that white racists will take the opinion of white people more seriously, especially when being called out for being racist.

Also LK, that quote from DIB seems pretty similar to what he's trying to say now. At least that's what I thought when I read that sentence

smokey -

this is the context of that quote:

#dudebitterly talking about flying claiming whiteness neutralizes potential counters

Right, the context is terrible because it's DiB with his usual 'soul reads' that make you want to vomit. Within that context though I don't think it's a particularly bad concept, it's obvious (imo) that he's not actually saying being white should carry more weight when calling out racism, but it will with racists anyway because they are morons.

Like if I was living in a DiB movie and I created a persona purely for labelling people racists, I would make that character white. Sure some people might be more inclined to call you a pussy-ass liberal, or whatever else. Overall I'd imagine it'd be more effective at whipping up a frenzy of hatred lol.

What we've got though is ctyri first assigning opinions DiB doesn't actually have (being white SHOULD carry more weight) then trying to stretch that because a few counter-points haven't occured to LK he must be racist. Standard frothiness.

DiB is awful, no doubt. Racist? I don't think so

all i did was jump in to point out that we have many white dudes on here who get derided for taking up causes for non-white dudes, so that white-cred they're supposed to get doesn't seem to carry as much weight as #dudebitterly thinks.

this in no way calls #dudebitterly a racist. just stupid for ignoring the readily available, real life examples we have right here on this website.

I would guess that a racist on here would likely act less racist if they knew the person they were talking do was their most hated race, because they'd be worried more about how that interaction might be perceived.

If it's a snow-white echo chamber tho, let all the racist flags fly (a la Cotton Hill) and just label those whiteys who disagree with you "social justice warriors"

Maybe i don't have much faith in racists, but if you're to the point where you're vocalizing your illogical hatred of other races or cultures, you're probably not changing your mind just cuz some dude says, "Hey, that's kinda racist."

Yeah, so as I said it's mainly ctyri who is flying off the rails about this.

I guess this depends on a lot - the level of racism, how willing they are to admit to themselves they may have racist tendencies, how likely they are to think people are playing the victim etc. Closer than I thought, but I definitely don't think it's an absurd position for dudeimbitter to be taking.

A situation that is somewhat similar but more interesting to me - who do you think will be taken more seriously for calling out a friend for whistling at a girl in the street, the male or female?

Nobody actually dislikes dids; he's quite un-dislikable. Loldids is an affectionate meme with a bit of grounding in truth.

i would think a female friend, no contest

ygos comes to mind as a typical response there

This is true.

you implied that his choice of avatar was part of a trap. I'm saying that this is very unlikely.

If you're not disagreeing with everything I'm saying then I'm unclear what you think Fly's trap is.

Ok, maybe we disagree on that part.