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American Indian costumes American Indian costumes

11-05-2014 , 02:35 PM
I'm struggling to see what all the fuss is about other than a knee jerk reaction to cry 'racism' because some people have decided to campaign on what is seemingly a pretty trivial issue?

latest example here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...lack-face.html

Firstly the comparison to black face is ridiculous... black face actually sets out to mock physical features of black people in the same way Nazi propaganda used to mock Jewish people. On the other hand costumes, which is all Ellie is using the outfit for, mostly do tend to come from one culture or another.
I don't see Italian or Greek Americans getting upset over Toga parties, Texans getting upset over cowboy outfits, Irish people getting upset over green hats and ginger beards or people with European heritage getting upset because someone has chosen to wear ceremonial robes and crown like a European Monarch. What makes Indian Chiefs so special that their manner of dress becomes offensive when copied for a costume over the many other costumes that come from various cultures?
11-05-2014 , 02:41 PM
You misspelled your user name.
11-05-2014 , 03:22 PM
I think costuming is fine, even better if done honorific-ally. No Chief has more than a petty cause to be offended as that person in the picture at the link was not wearing a chiefly headdress with the intention of actually posing as a Chief.
11-05-2014 , 03:24 PM
I agree with you, there is nothing offensive about it.
11-05-2014 , 03:32 PM
11-05-2014 , 04:27 PM
Why the **** does it matter what the reasoning is? Are you so socially dense that wearing a 'funny hat' is more valuable to you than offending a large group of people who have been treated like dog**** for the last 300+ years? I like swearing, but if I'm in a group of stuck up *******s who don't want me to swear I stop doing it. I don't whine and bitch about my freedom of speech or passive aggressively try to find the most swearing I can do without offending them. Are you offended if I say fuh? Are you offended if I say uck? Why can't I put those syllables together waahhhhh. Put on a different costume that doesn't insult people. If you're not willing to make that compromise then you're a ****ing *******.
11-05-2014 , 04:33 PM
So...no explanation about why it's offensive? Just a big ol' STFU you POS?

Is that because you don't know what the explanation is, or is it because it's literally inexplicable?

And to avoid dressing in offensive costumes (because I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was inadvertent on her end), where should one go to find out ahead of time? Is there a list somewhere?

Last edited by DudeImBetter; 11-05-2014 at 04:45 PM.
11-05-2014 , 04:41 PM
It's not that hard. Does it represent another race or culture? Should probably avoid just to make sure.
11-05-2014 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
Why the **** does it matter what the reasoning is?
There doesn't appear to be much reasoning. It seems to be baseless criticism derived from oversensitivity/knee jerk reactions over anything linked to race, or a culture associated with a minority group.

Quote:
Put on a different costume that doesn't insult people. If you're not willing to make that compromise then you're a ****ing *******.
Why does a costume necessarily insult people? In the example given it hasn't been worn to mock, it has just been worn as a costume that presumably the wearer liked.
11-05-2014 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeImBetter
So...no explanation about why it's offensive? Just a big ol' STFU you POS?

Is that because you don't know what the explanation is, or is it because it's literally inexplicable?

And to avoid dressing in offensive costumes (because I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was inadvertent on her end), where should would go to find out ahead of time? Is there a list somewhere?
This is like the literal manifestation of FlyWf's "not understanding racism so X thinks it's just a list of things not to say or do to avoid being shamed" trope.
11-05-2014 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
It's not that hard. Does it represent another race or culture? Should probably avoid just to make sure.
So should prom kings and queens be avoided as they appropriate the head dress of European monarchs?
11-05-2014 , 04:50 PM
Let's go out on a limb and assume Ellie Goulding isn't super attuned to what constitutes an offensive costume, and instead thought the headdress was beautiful or w/e. What should she do in instances like this where there appears to be nothing overtly offensive? What is reasonable to expect of her prior to choosing a costume?
11-05-2014 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
It's not that hard. Does it represent another race or culture? Should probably avoid just to make sure.

So avoid honoring humanity's rich diversity and ability to cross race and cultural lines as individuals?
11-05-2014 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowie
So should prom kings and queens be avoided as they appropriate the head dress of European monarchs?

Minorities often have their own ethnicities, religions, and cultures dictated back to them by the majority. So you have things like black face, Indians being treated as savages or new age mystics (like in the Lone Ranger), Mexicans being all gangbangers etc. Halloween is an extension of that, even naively. Do I think those women meant to be disrespectful? No probably not, but they took a symbol (the headdress) and a demographics dress up from a minority and put it on just because it looked exotic, erasing whatever a headdress means to Native Americans

MTV has created a nice article to answer your questions

http://www.mtv.com/news/1837578/why-...r-headdresses/
11-05-2014 , 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie
So avoid honoring humanity's rich diversity and ability to cross race and cultural lines as individuals?
Spank, some model wearing a headdress in a skimpy outfit isn't honoring humanity's rich diversity any more than wearing Hugo Boss is honoring German heritage.
11-05-2014 , 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
erasing whatever a headdress means to Native Americans.
I was with you until here.

Goulding thinking the headdress was pretty and wanting to wear it for Halloween doesn't change what the headdress means to you or me; its meaning for us is independent.
11-05-2014 , 04:58 PM
Can white people still call God, The Great Spirit, or are the Thought and Expression police offended by that too?

In other words, we must act our skin color race at all times because racism? So ridiculous.
11-05-2014 , 04:59 PM
How would people feel if they learned the headdress was authentic and given to her from a NA close friend, for the explicit purpose of letting her wear it for Halloween?
11-05-2014 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Minorities often have their own ethnicities, religions, and cultures dictated back to them by the majority.[...]
that doesn't really address your previous point which was:

"Does it represent another race or culture? Should probably avoid just to make sure."

Plenty of costumes are derived from other cultures as illustrated... your statement there would cover the prom king/queen example too

As for black face... that really isn't a good comparison - using some clothing/accessories associated with another culture is different to mimicking the racial features of another group.
11-05-2014 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeImBetter
I was with you until here.

Goulding thinking the headdress was pretty and wanting to wear it for Halloween doesn't change what the headdress means to you or me; its meaning for us is independent.
Well there is a give and take. There is a difference between appropriation and taking someone else's things using them in good faith because you enjoy them. Culture is always evolving, giving, taking, appropriating and creating anew. I wouldn't sanctify the headdress to say that only Native Americans should wear it by law or whatever, but it seems a bit cavalier for a model to wear something just because it looks cute.
11-05-2014 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowie
that doesn't really address your previous point which was:

"Does it represent another race or culture? Should probably avoid just to make sure."

Plenty of costumes are derived from other cultures as illustrated... your statement there would cover the prom king/queen example too

As for black face... that really isn't a good comparison - using some clothing/accessories associated with another culture is different to mimicking the racial features of another group.
Race isn't just figured by racial characteristic.
11-05-2014 , 05:18 PM
Man, I love her voice, and she seems like a sincere, even progressive woman, but I think this crosses the line. Somebody might be offended by this careless display, so I'll do my best to smear her on the internet. What's for lunch, babe, Happy China? Maybe some Taco Bell?

Quote:
Miss Goulding also received support from Crystal Speer, who works for the Native American Heritage Association in the United States.

While the organisation does not have an official opinion on the matter, Mrs Speer said in a personal capacity: ‘I do think [the reaction] is a bit much. People these days will jump at anything to get offended at.

'I can see both sides but unless you’re Native American yourself I don’t think it’s right for you to say whether it’s offensive or not.’

Last edited by FoldnDark; 11-05-2014 at 05:24 PM.
11-05-2014 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
This is like the literal manifestation of FlyWf's "not understanding racism so X thinks it's just a list of things not to say or do to avoid being shamed" trope.
hahaha followed by:



Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeImBetter
How would people feel if they learned the headdress was authentic and given to her from a NA close friend, for the explicit purpose of letting her wear it for Halloween?
Well what would it take for it not to be bad guys?! Just asking questions guys.
11-05-2014 , 05:36 PM
Using an authentic headdress as a costume prop seems exponentially more offensive than the already offensive "hey let's dress as other cultures for jokes aren't they quaint" bull**** fake costumes.
11-05-2014 , 05:41 PM
A beautiful person wearing a beautiful piece of art, only haters gonna hate that. What a great trick on the uptight members of the chiefdom. Must be coyotes work.

Speaking of tricks....a white supremacist might criticize her for being a race traitor, honoring unsaved savages by wearing their garb and looking so hot.

Meanwhile actual Native Americans could still use everyone's help recovering from near cultural annihilation and almost total social annihilation, so let's get mad at fashion and agree with the same position as super-racists. Now that's tricky.

      
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