The welfare state was started by white people for white people, blacks were intentionally excluded.

But the welfare state is good and there should be more whites, blacks, asians and others on it.

I don't think meanboyfriend was articulate in his line of thought, but it's a valid line of thought. In almost all areas where black people are concentrated in they are democratic strongholds. Like many of the large inner cities, for example. These are, essentially, 100% democratic. These areas are also very much criticized for their lack of good services. The schools and the neighborhoods, in general, suck there. So it's a perpetual cycle of poverty and misery. There have been people who have questioned whether continuing down the path of blind support for these democrat politicians is actually helping the populations of these inner cities.

Stephen A Smith brought up the exact same point. He suggested that the black vote actually explore the possibility of supporting republicans. Not because he thought republican politicians would necessarily be better for black populations (and to be honest their past history doesn't indicate that they would be), but to galvanize the democratic politicians to actually do something to deserve the support given to them by the black vote.

I'm torn on the idea, but what I do know is that inner cities do actually suck. The schools are horrific, and I see no realistic way to change that in the current situation.

BRAVO!

Poor black people have been sold down the river for nothing more than their votes! At least Republicans (which I am not one) don't pretend to have a special place in their hearts for black people while at the same time giving them the shaft in order to get what they want!

The issue is I don't think they could pull it off. They would have to change so many things in order to do it I don't think it's possible. The dems are beholden to the teacher's union like the republicans are to the religious right.

Nothing...you know nothing. And you're not torn about anything regarding the treatment of disadvantaged groups. You're a bigot who pretends to entertain the idea of voting for Sanders when it is clear you are most likely voting for Trump (if you don't write-in David Duke) and that's why you are getting BRAVO's from avowed racists.

As I've said, you've degenerated into a babbling idiot.

Not really. It's the 'raised by wolves' logic, where we pretend that we have no idea how things got the way they did. The inner city is poor and has a lack of services and coincidentally also majority black, but that's by design, it didn't happen by happenstance. Just as the predominantly white richer with good services suburbs are by design. The causitive arrow is exactly backwards. People vote Republican because the Republican party promises to look after white interests and by extension deny black interests and blacks vote Democrat because Democrats promise to look after black interests. We could easily fix inner city problems tomorrow but there are vested interests in preventing that, and for good (from their point of view) reason.

That's why the "blacks should vote for Republicans" ploy is so ludicrous.

I don't believe this. I think there are more problems than we understand that are going on. What amount of money or what issues need to be addressed to fix this? I firmly believe the issue isn't money anymore. Not after we've had experiments like Mark Zuckerberg donating 100 million to a New Jersey school district and it being essentially thrown away.

If you have some concrete suggestions, please, I'm all ears. But saying things like "we know the problems, but people don't want to fix them" just doesn't cut it.

I agree with Wil. Blacks vote overwhelmingly Dem but why? What have Dems done for blacks? I remember one black woman political commentator saying she loved Bill Clinton because he plays the sax and loves McDonalds....WTF? Meanwhile he passed mandatory minimums and wanted to end welfare. I don't think Dems do a damn thing to help the black community.

I personally don't think the black community should care about dem/repub. I understand why they do, but what they should be looking for is for concrete measures that can be put into place that can help them as a group.

wil you're thinking black people should abandon the democratic party and listen to racist Trump supporters when it comes to their voices in government. And you attempt to portray me as out of touch.

Sad

I've never said that. I said they should entertain the idea of it and not have democratic politicians take them for granted.

And yes, you are really out of touch.

Sure what programs do you want to know about? Keep in mind, the inner city was deliberately caused to be poor and lacking in services so that resources could be dedicated elsewhere. It's no surprise that the suburbs surrounding the inner city aren't as poor and deliberately structure their city limits to exclude any possibility of the poor living there. There are programs that help the inner city depending on how the causes of poverty are conceptualized, but they receive pushback because of people's willingness to blame poverty on the poor as to exclude any possibility of resources being diverted to the poor. Be it in Appalachia or the inner city.

Of course blacks do this all the time.

Ok, then what about the cases where extreme amounts of resources are invested into inner city schools and results are lacking? I'm not saying what you are saying is incorrect, I'm saying that there have been cases where resources have been provided and results have still been bad. I'm just curious. There could be results that were good but I haven't done the research.

I'm mostly venting about the teacher's unions. I think the have failed inner city children, yet still are supported in every way.

Jumping from how the inner city has poor services to teacher's unions?

No one cares about teacher's unions. Most other countries have teacher's unions, and they work perfectly fine.

That doesn't explain anything at all. My concerns are over the amount of money that's dumped into them and why the results are so terrible. I don't know why you mention other countries having teacher's unions. What's that have to do with us?

Because you just said

"I'm mostly venting about the teacher's unions. I think the have failed inner city children, yet still are supported in every way."

Um, just because other countries have teacher's unions and they work fine, doesn't mean they are working just fine here.

Sure but that requires specific policies, which can be fixed. But we aren't getting that, we're getting some amazing happenstance that teacher unions all around the nation are sabotaging the poor kids. It's a bit more systematic than that.

Otherwise we're left with a system that appeared by God's grace and we just admit that we don't understand how more minority majority schools don't have the resources or support but suburbia mysteriously does.

In 1955 something like 15% of black children were born out of wedlock. Today it's around 70%, and when you factor in the insane amount of abortions in the black community, probably something like 90% of black children are conceived out of wedlock. You might want to start there if you want to address the problem.

Sad,

**** off meanboyfriend

The fixation with the pathology in the black family has a long history. It, of course, started during slavery but continued after slavery throughout Jim Crow. It came to the forefront with Moynihan Report, otherwise known as The Negro Family: The Case For National Action. Monynihan pointed to slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, police harassment, the lack of a safety net for the black family as contributing to the increased disintegration of the black family, and called for a national plan to help remedy these issues to help maintain the black family.

Of course, those who want to pathologize blacks was uniquely contributing to their own poverty and absolve themselves of any action, people such as yourself, ignored Monynihan's recommendations as to the sources of the problems with the black family and pointed to the higher rate as a uniquely black problem. These is a direct line that follows from Monynihan's report, those who ignored the call the action and blamed the problem on blacks themselves, people such as Nixon, to Reagan's Young Bucks and Welfare Queens to your post. So be proud of your genealogy!

But moving on, let's take your post as a call to action. We should lower the child out of wedlock rate in order to reduce poverty. The Brookings Institute put out something similar with their Success Sequence. The problem is that other doesn't seem to be a way to force people to have children within marriage or even more the needle one way or another and any method to do so tends to be very punitive, and in any case countries have similar rates of children out of wedlock, but have vastly less child poverty and far better results by schoolchildren at similar income percentiles. Is it because of a miracle? No, they simply focus on reducing child poverty through transfers.

So we can have a situation were blacks are out of poverty, that black poverty is minimized, and schools are well funded. But you are the problem. Just remember that.

So it's white people's fault again?

Well the Scandinavian people are mostly white, and their child poverty levels are very low, even though they have the same rate of out of wedlock childbirths as us. I'll let you figure out how white people fit into that.