You are arguing with me over technicalities. I think we can determine the difference between abuse and trying to correct behavior. When I said I don't intervene unless I think you are actually hurting them that doesn't mean I'm intervening in every case of physical discipline. In some cases I agree with the physical discipline.

You are arguing just to argue. The kid with the explosives hobby wasn't encouraged by his father to keep doing it, in fact he was told to stop. He didn't. Then his father punched him in the face after almost killing his sister. He stopped after that.

And I suggest you go around and give your parenting advice to all parents that you disagree with, as vocally as possible. Bring your bat with you and hand out those beatings. Report back with results, please. Good luck.

It's not a technicality. I just gave you three meanings in which it hurts them. One was literal. What's the sense of the word in which hitting your child isn't "hurting them"?

And if a kid's "hobby" is playing with explosives, then there's a whole lot of opportunities for adult intervention prior to him nearly killing his sister. WTF kind of terrible parent gives a kid repeated access to a bunch of explosives he's intent on playing around with?

But don't worry, Wil, I don't have to go around telling parents this. Where I live, hitting a child and leaving a mark is illegal. Hitting your child with any implement is illegal. And, while I'm not a lawyer, letting your kid play with explosives is pretty likely to be considered negligence.

As I've said, you are arguing just to argue. I think it'd mostly because it's me, but I can't really prove that. Through your track record of replies to my posts in multiple threads it seems obvious. Whatever.

That kid made his own explosives, looking up recipes and mixing stuff together. His father warned him to stop. You must have grown up very differently than me or much much younger than me, as his story was pretty understandable. I knew many other typical kids his age who loved blowing things up or lighting things on fire. It's stupid kid stuff, it happens , get over it.

The real issue is how humorous your behavior is in rushing to denounce other people. People like you, lg, master all get this kick out of running around saying how awful other people are. I think this must be to make up for how crappy your own lives are or some inner guilt, as it doesn't make sense to me to be so judgemental about people you have never met. It's bizarre. I couldn't give a **** less about what other people do unless it's blatantly bad and hurting someone else. Do what you wish, just keep it away from me.

I guess you don't roll like that. As I've said, I know you want to go around handing out ass whippings to parents with a bat, but if you or anyone else started lecturing me on how I should raise my child I'd tell you to go EAD, and if that person kept at it you'd be right, soemone would be catching an ass whipping. Telling other parents how they should be raising their child is pretty much a taboo. You should stfu about it in real life. This is the internet so your mental masturbation is accepted, but in the real world that **** don't fly.

Don't forget your bat.

Lol wil. If I didn't know your body of work I'd say this was a troll.

Hitting a kid with a genuine condition is clearly not even remotely the right way to deal with the situation. Why would you use this as an example of an appropriate time to hit your kid?

Notice in your answer you even realized the right answer. Deal with the underlying problem. Because if someone just kept hitting this kid without dealing with the underlying problem - the kid is going to keep acting out.

I love how you constantly try to rewrite history. You didn't say 'I don't need to read EVERY parenting book'. You said 'I don't need to read ANY parenting book'.

Anyway if you agree you aren't the best parent or have all of the experience you need - it seems like it would be worth investing a little bit of time into educating yourself about parenting and getting more perspectives than your extremely narrow one.

As I said earlier, it's such a strange thing how people think they know enough about an incredibly complex thing like parenting based on their tiny sample size.

Anyway, my problem is with the general attitude that someone's personal feels is enough and ignorance should be supported just because a kid came from your sperm.

We discussed the issue in a large group of men. The guy essentially said he had to deal with it because he couldnt have his son throwing punches at his wife, especially because he was larger than average for his age.

And yeah, all the men there agreed it was the best way to handle it. Talking to the boy wasn't working, as he tried that multiple times.

I don't feel a need to read a parenting book. The majority of my friends haven't read a parenting book either. If you feel as if you need one, great. I don't. I don't see why you think I should be doing what you are doing.

What happens if you read the wrong book? if I recall correctly a couple many years ago took the advice of a doctor who recommended they raise their son as a female after his penis was destroyed during circumcision. That child killed himself years later.

Yeah, uh, no thanks. You go ahead and read whatever the **** makes you happy. Why you think I should read what you read and raise my child in that manner because you really feel that's the best way is loltastic. Good luck with your experiment.

Checks out.

The argument is completely ******ed.

Example : I've read multiple self - help books that I believe are really good and I think they have deepened my understanding on life. What? You haven't read any self-help books at all? And you admit you aren't the greatest person in the world? Lol then you must be a ****ing moron.

Do you even realize how idiotic you people sound?

I'm arguing because this is a discussion forum and everything you say is ****ing stupid. It's not like there's some personal vendetta because you spilled my pint or something. It's all based on your opinions. You can drop the paranoia.

We obviously did have different childhoods. Because if the makings of a bomb were in our shed, and I was intent on blowing **** up, my parents would have stuck a padlock on it rather than leaving me to it and punching me if something went wrong. Amazing that you and your friends never thought of that. Hey, it's stupid kid stuff, just got to punch them for it.

My denouncing of other people on this matter is hardly some bizarre view. I just told you it's literally a crime to punch your child here. It's a crime to hit them with a belt.

Someone actually punched a child and your response is muse about social etiquette. You think the real issue is if I denounce child abuse on the internet. Not the abuser itself. Me for not respecting your social mores in PU. That's pretty ****ing disgusting, Wil.

Once or a dozen times doesn't matter this is abuse.

Wil thinking these are examples of acceptable/good parenting and not giving a **** enough about a person under his care to educate himself that, you know, beating the **** out of your kid because you were negligent enough to leave them around a loaded gun is as unsurprising as it is sad.

This mother****er has the gall to talk about black people and their cultural problems too. Amazing.

No, "everything I say is stupid" simply can't be true. It's not possible for there to be this much of a disconnect between people like you and others in this forum who disagree with me and for so many people in person to completely think the opposite. If anyone looked at it objectively they would say there must be something very wrong here for the two groups to be on opposite sides of the argument.

So, I'll chalk it up to either your extreme dislike for me or your need to make yourself feel better on an internet forum. Personally, I'll take the opinion of people I know in real life who have experience raising children over some nerds on the internet who want to feel better about themselves.

Your argument, again, is ridiculous. Firstly, who ever said his supplies were in the shed? It's not really that hard to look up things you can mix together and use household items for that purpose. He just happened to blow up the shed. And again, you can't stop kid from getting to things completely. Kids are resourceful and find things and get into things. You thinking putting a padlock on something and fixing the world is a truly stupid thing to say. Kid figure things out. Kids learn how to pick locks. I know, because I was a kid, and I did things like that. Do you even have children? What are you, 25 years old?

Great. Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. It's not here. No one gives a **** what is illegal in your country.

There's nothing disgusting about it. If you catch your kid doing something extremely dangerous or stupid smacking them is acceptable to many parents. Not all situations are the same. It must be nice to be able to say "well my my son almost killed my daughter I would NEVER hit them". I would think most parents here would disagree with you. In this case his father punched him in the face. I think that's a little much but in this case his reaction was justified.

Again, no one here is advocating abusing a child, but extreme circumstances require corrective action immediately. Some behavior is simply unacceptable and must be dealt with.

You may not be advocating it, but you sure as **** are apologizing for it.

There isn't a scenario wil can come up with that justifies violence against your child to correct an action. Your on the wrong side of the argument wil. Do some research and stop hanging out with violent idiots.

Objectionable man has objectionable friends shocker.



I'm the one arguing just to argue and you're going to nitpick about where his family kept all the explosive ingredients after he'd shown a keen interest in making a bomb?

No, I don't have kids. A smarter man would have made a better guess at my age though. What I do know is that my parents never punched me in the face. They never took an action that could've so severely harmed me like that. You realise a punch like that can ****ing kill someone right? Rather than sit around and think of some ways to handle a kid, or keep him from dangerous items lying around the house, you sit around justifying child abuse.

Some tight laws tend to be what happen when you lose a major war. The point is, as you know, that trying to spin my stance against hitting children as some crazy out there fringe view is absurd when I live in a developed country like the UK that has made the practice, quite rightly, illegal.

Yeah, all the kids here that don't get punched blow each other up all the time. It's just the price of a non-abusive world, Wil.

You keep saying you're not advocating abuse, and then making exceptions for really clear cases of excessive force against kids. Punching a child is abuse. I don't care if Daddy says you made him mad.

I don't think I'm taking an extreme stance in this at all. Everything points to physical discipline as being mostly a negative. It most likely doesn't help and could damage the child. This is widely accepted and I very much agree with it. I think most parents do. There are, however, extreme cases where something absolutely must not occur again, and if the option is physical, then so be it.

Nothing is absolute. We are talking about extremes here, not the regular day to day. If a child doesn't clean up their room, beating their ass is obviously wrong. If they almost kill someone, then more forceful steps should be taken.

I gave many examples, ones that came up in my life. You are welcome to pick apart all the scenarios and explain to me what a better option would be and I'd be more than willing to listen.

Yeah, so it's weird when you think these established facts are suspended in some instances, particularly when the "discipline" reaches an extreme like punching a child in the face.

And then you miss out on a whole bunch of other potential factors and attribute the positives after the incidents to the beating.

Maybe the parents tightened up and were more careful after the kid did something so extreme like shooting a gun at a parent, or nearly blowing up his sister. Maybe the kids themselves realised what a close shave it was. Maybe the parents also had a talk with them after they'd all calmed down and that had an impact.

But you'd rather attribute it to pummelling the kid in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

This is you advocating for abuse. An adult punching a child in the face isn't "physical discipline." Punching a child in the face is abuse pure and simple. It's not an "edge case." When you hear someone say they punched their 12 year old in the face you should be shocked and appalled if you aren't a horrible person.


You make no distinction between spanking and "beating their ass" which is part of your problem. There is no situation that justifies punching your child in the face as discipline because punching a child in the face is child abuse.

Do either of you mouth-breathers have children ?

It's good to know you're angry at posts you haven't read.

If you stated this before I missed it, so I'll just ask : do you have children?

You asked before and I answered.

I don't hit my dogs and I would never hit a child, Wil.

Why do I need to have children to know what child abuse is?

I have a very energetic strong willed 2 1/2 year old and a 1 year old, never hit them and never will.