Okay, so what's the problem? He is arguing that a genetic theory of Jewish intelligence based on natural selection is perfectly reasonable and falsifiable. He even goes to great pains to assuage softies like you by explaining there is no such thing as a Jewish "race" and that it shouldn't lead people to think something like eugenics is a good option, or whatever other horrible ideas that prevent you from considering the theory palatable.

https://newrepublic.com/article/77727/groups-and-genes

lol he called you a Softy

In the case of Jews there is probably a third component that I don't think has been mentioned. Losers tend to leave it because unlike most other religions, it doesn't claim that committing a few "sins" is in the same category as committing many sins. But that all is forgiven if you "repent". Not very logical. Those other religions are thus more likely to attract lazy, undisciplined, morons which would bring down their average IQ.

That reminds me of my Pascal's wager joke that if you're not going to believe in god you should not believe in the Jewish god because there's no hell.

Do you have any evidence that this is the case?

I didn't say I had a problem with the theory per say. I would never jump on to say I believe something so fragile without hard evidence, but I think it's an interesting idea and that particular theory isn't why I am not a big Pinker fan.

Is the theory falsifiable? I think that's a difficult question. That's always a difficult question when it comes to theories of evolution. You have a process that occurs over much time, at the DNA level, and usually all you have to work with that is solid are the more recent expressions. You can't recreate the changes yourself. In fact IIRC the person who popularized the falsifiability standard actually used it to attack Darwin. So be careful about using falsifiability bluntly, especially when it comes to evolution.

White guy in the Philippines says hi.

Any theory is much stronger if there is a way to prove it wrong, ie it is falsifiable. A theory can only be considered scientific if it has predictive value, and it cannot have predictive power if there is no way to prove it wrong. This is an important way scientific theories are better than mere guesses, conspiracy theories, and most of our general musings here about politics. There are plenty of ways we could falsify the TOE.

Pinker points out that the authors' theory of a possible genetic link to Jewish intelligence based on natural selection could easily be proved wrong by twin studies of Jews with the specific genetic diseases they believe are linked to increased intelligence. If the twins with the disease do not consistently score higher on IQ tests than their siblings, then their theory would be proven wrong.

I have never heard of prisoners or drug addicts who have found religion turning to Judaism. Have you?

I'll assume the answer is no.

I'm interested in what evidence you have that losers leave Judaism because it doesn't give a pass to those that repent. My understanding is that Judaism does not seek to recruit new members and that it is possible to give up belief in god but continue to consider oneself Jewish, which of these assumptions are wrong?

Judaism is more than just a religion, and it quite burdensome to join. People tend to gravitate more to welcoming religions when seeking a better life.

Yeah that's kind of my point I think David's point occurred to him and he decided to share without considering whether there was any evidence of this at all.

Which is a good thing. We have so litle evidence that it's very precious and best saved for disproving ideas.

Most likely we have such sparce evidence that fitting to it produces nothing very meaningful anyway

jailhouse religion gonna jailhouse religion

[not Judaism] spread like a cancer throughout murican prisons/jails in the 90s as what seems to be a nah nahnah nah naaah naaaah/conniving (get back @ The Man!!...we'll show you cracker!!..you aint gone keep me down all locked up in no cell!!! lolol) angle that goofballs use to receive like 60% more time out of their cell roaming around the jailhouse than others are allowed daily. cause the religion says so

oh yea, they recieve special (most times better food) trays, different than what other inmates get.

And then there's the well known theory that many of the smartest comedians converted to Judaism for the jokes.

You are essentially saying the same thing as me. The bottom line is that Jews are smarter for at least four different reasons. Survival of the fittest, a culture that values learning, being graded on a curve based on what you do rather than what you think, and distaste for illogical beliefs.

Of course that fourth one is gradually dooming religious Jews in this day and age as they, more than other monotheistic religious people, find it harder and harder to dismiss atheism (or at least deism).

The prison conversion argument is spectacularly sloppy thinking. Surely the fact that Judaism is an extremely tiny minority in the US (only ~2%), along with the fact that Jews historically don't engage in evangelical outreach the way Christians do, is a much bigger factor than any supposedly logical nature of the religion.

Also, I think a lot of the people who become religious in prison are simply becoming more devout in the religion they were exposed to in their youth. That is, they go from being non-practicing Christians to practicing Christians, which is a much easier jump than converting to a religion you might know almost nothing about. Also, a ton of these "conversions" are just the prisoners trying to please the wardens, who are mostly Christian.

I mean, I could bust this faulty logic up all day long, but then I come from a culture that values critical thinking and scholasticism, so maybe it's just that I have those biological advantages.

I mean, ten seconds of Googling and I find this:

Praying in prison

That's why I said that I know of zero miscreants who became Jews. If I knew of even a few my argument would be refuted. Remember dereds asked me if I had ANY evidence for my theory, not if I had strong evidence.

But you didn't quite get my point. Which was not that they would gravitate to a more logical religion (actually less illogical) but rather to a religion that will forgive all sins if you profess allegiance to it.

Still, of the four reasons I mentioned earlier I think by far the most important one is that Jews value learning. Their higher IQs are probably almost totally due to the fact that IQ tests don't really test purely the innate ability you were born with even though they are supposed to. Others IQs are lower on average because they subscribe to Did's comment about contemplating mental multiplying tricks or they fit into the "real world" zikzak referred to when he spoke of students staring at the ceiling when they were supposed to be learning about syllogisms.

The losers who left Judaism did it hundreds of years ago. Not so much now. And of course it was many hundreds of years ago when people were first choosing their religion that they took into account the get out of jail free card the other religions were offering them.

Nice try Poindexter. I can explain in two words why nobody in prison is converting to Judaism: boiled chicken.

Seriously though, I thought it was pretty transparent that Davis Sklansky was joking at Folns and co.s' expense. I have no idea how Real Trolly was able to see that he wasn't. Congratulations white guys of the twoplustwo PU forum, you guys are officially beyond satirization. It's like you discovered some new dimension!

I'm jumping in late so I might be misunderstanding, but I can give you my objection to reparations....

You asked somewhere ITT what's wrong with paying for other people's sins. I think there's a lot wrong with it. First, I personally have nothing to atone for. Also, where does it end?

What happened to native Americans was sinful, but should things be stolen from me to make reparations? And if so, it's very possible that what you take from me will go to a tribe who at one time stole that land from another tribe! So now are they going to give what was taken from me and give it to the tribe they took the land from?

I do not think we are anywhere near racial equality in America. But the solution isn't to make reparations. It's to start treating everyone equally! End discrimination starting today!

And here's something sure to be a very unpopular thing to say in this forum, but I want to say at least 100,000 lives were lost by the union during the civil (in part) to free slaves. If those who's ancestors took part in slavery should repent and pay compensation to black people's ancestry who were slaves, does that mean whites who's ancestry died fighting the south are owed a thank you?

History is history. What's done is done. There have been many egregiously terrible things done to people. But you back and start trying to equal the balance sheet all the way back to the Romans. You make do by correcting the wrong and moving forward imo. No apology or reparations necessary unless the people who committed the acts and their victims are still alive imo.

Setting aside for the moment that when you pay tax to a government that money is theirs not yours you don't think victims of crime should ever receive compensation from the state?

I agree with Lestat. If black people are going to get reparations for centuries of discrimination, then whites should get compensation for being saddled with their small genitals, thin skin and hideous children.