Anarchy - Page 250 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

If I develop countermeasures that kill you upon trespassing onto my property, you voluntarily suicide yourself?

Of course, the thief -- you, in this scenario -- doesn't volunteer to die, he just wants to use everyone's stuff for free, assuming the owners' consent without asking. (Hey! This sounds a lot like how government and politicians perpetuate themselves!)

Just because you consent doesn't mean I do too.

It's not yours when you're not using it, also harming other people is a violation of the NAP and not justified. See voluntary. Now you want to use force to prevent voluntary interactions, sounds very statist to me.

10-31-2014 , 12:06 PM

#6228

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

My DRO doesn't recognize your DRO's property rights, so not sure what you mean by you own the waffle maker. My Walking Dead DRO shows that property as unclaimed. We award property rights by first person to yell claimed about an object when we enter a room, I claimed that waffle marker, so its mine now.

10-31-2014 , 12:07 PM

#6229

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Of course, the thief -- you, in this scenario -- doesn't volunteer to die, he just wants to use everyone's stuff for free, assuming the owners' consent without asking. (Hey! This sounds a lot like how government and politicians perpetuate themselves!)

Just because you consent doesn't mean I do too.

This coming from the guy who doesn't want to pay taxes to use public goods and services.

The ironing is delicious

10-31-2014 , 12:09 PM

#6230

27AllIn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,583

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Lol. Way to change your question.

Again, this doesn't get fixed in ACism. What is to stop a rich man from hiring a DRO to create a toll road directly outside everyone's property in the community?

Oh... ****ing nothing?

Riiiiiight

You know what stops somebody from doing that now?

****ing government regulations and laws.

What's to stop the regulations and laws from changing to allow The State to make a toll road outside everyone's property in the community?

A: Voting

What's to stop The State from eliminating voting?

A: A revolution

So basically if The State does something wrong, the only solution might be a revolution, right?

If a private company does something wrong the people only have to revolt against a single company. Not the entire State.

10-31-2014 , 12:14 PM

#6231

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

So ACism is simply the state on a smaller level?

Good to know.

Also, you're wrong but big ****ing surprise.

10-31-2014 , 12:20 PM

#6232

27AllIn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,583

That's exactly it. ACism, like I've said before, is as if every single individual was like a State. That's a good way to think about it.

What am I wrong on? Again I'll make it simple:

The State goes tyrannical = revolt against The State
Private company goes tyrannical = revolt against said company

It'll be a lot easier to revolt against a private company. Where am I wrong on this one.

10-31-2014 , 12:28 PM

#6233

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

So ACism is simply the state on a smaller level?

Good to know...

10-31-2014 , 12:48 PM

#6234

27AllIn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,583

10-31-2014 , 01:01 PM

#6235

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27AllIn

At least we've finally got to the point of admitting ACism is just statism

10-31-2014 , 01:52 PM

#6236

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

With the only added advantage that they can more easily wage violence.

10-31-2014 , 02:16 PM

#6237

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

With the only added advantage that they can more easily wage violence.

Err, not so fast...

Spoiler:

10-31-2014 , 02:22 PM

#6238

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

Err, not so fast...

Spoiler:

That's right.

Pedobearflag.pdf

10-31-2014 , 02:33 PM

#6239

74Offsuit

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,383

peeks not pokes tho.

10-31-2014 , 02:52 PM

#6240

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

It's not yours when you're not using it,

In what world? What do you call your fantasy land?

10-31-2014 , 02:58 PM

#6241

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27AllIn

What's your question exactly?

No question, just saying that free markets result in Walmarts ruling the world.

10-31-2014 , 03:03 PM

#6242

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27AllIn

Big ideas don't fit little people until they grow.

Some are content with believing that breaking into your place to steal your waffle iron, as long as you aren't home, is perfectly legitimate.

10-31-2014 , 03:13 PM

#6243

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

In what world? What do you call your fantasy land?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Big ideas don't fit little people until they grow.

Some are content with believing that breaking into your place to steal your waffle iron, as long as you aren't home, is perfectly legitimate.

Really we've been over this before. You imagine your version of property rights as some kind of logical natural law when in reality it's just a societal construct like any other property rights law. Which leads you to question beg, like assuming I'm stealing under some alternative property rights theory because you still assume X property is yours when that's the issue at hand.

10-31-2014 , 03:30 PM

#6244

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Really we've been over this before. You imagine your version of property rights as some kind of logical natural law [...]

Do you have a right to defend yourself?

That's all it boils down to.

Those subservient to the State might answer "No."

10-31-2014 , 03:31 PM

#6245

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

Do you have a right to defend yourself?

That's all it boils down to.

Those subservient to the State might answer "No."

You are not your waffle maker.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 10-31-2014 at 03:37 PM.

10-31-2014 , 03:44 PM

#6246

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

You aren't your waffle maker.

Property is the physical form of exercising your liberty.

Liberty is choosing to do what you want with your life.

If people can take your property -- which you've accumulated over your lifetime -- without your consent, they are infringing on your liberty and life indirectly.

If someone is about to kill you, but they command you not to defend yourself, do you defend yourself?

10-31-2014 , 03:49 PM

#6247

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

So in your world theft is a crime punishable by death?

10-31-2014 , 03:57 PM

#6248

Proph

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,834

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

So in your world theft is a crime punishable by death?

Preferably not. What should you do when you catch people stealing, especially those like Hue with a perverted philosophy whom might be led to do so repeatedly?

I prefer this to the alternative of locking people up for tax evasion when trying to keep their own money. (Which those of your ilk consider theft in itself. The distortion!)

There wouldn't be many thieves. And, really, isn't that the goal?

10-31-2014 , 03:59 PM

#6249

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Taxes TYRANNY
Drunk Driving Laws AN AFFRONT TO LIBERTY
Summary execution for petty theft: Non-Aggression Approved

10-31-2014 , 03:59 PM

#6250

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph

"physical form of exercising ones' liberty" How very Harry Potterish. It's not even really explained how "liberty" magically becomes "property", transmutation perhaps? Anyways even if we accept the homesteading idea, in this alternative form people still have just as much liberty, in fact, they have even more liberty because instead of property being ex parte removed from me to interact with, I am now able to exercise liberty on a waffle maker to make waffles, when in an the AC version I wasn't.

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