LOL OMG Dsl25 I'm not going to even ask you to stop, but I am going to hope you go absolutely nuts and get banned.

At least he's not as bad as Nutflush69, who proved unequivocally that I am an idiot and saw nothing insulting about saying that. He was a member of Mensa

Apparently you do. Despite your claim that you haven't played in the past year, Sharkscope says that you've played 31 tournaments on WPN in the past 3 weeks.

Of course I'll play when the website pays me $50. Why wouldn't I? I played in the Million, too.

Forget about depositing, though.

Originally Posted by SantaCruz:
The poker site isn't unlicensed and it isn't running illegally. And there is absolutely nothing preventing the CEO from prohibiting you from playing on the site.

WPN is licensed and regulated by someone somewhere? If you're trying to hide that, awesome job!!! Up until right now, anyway.

On the other hand, if you were to tell me that a license from a Native American reservation or a Caribbean island doesn't mean a darn thing so you haven't bothered, I'd understand.

It is licensed (even though licensing doesn't mean that much); I was pointing out that Dsl was factually wrong. And the site is by no means illegal. It isn't regulated in the US though.

The sad truth, though, is that US regulation hasn't been all butterflies and unicorns for US players. The customer support on many sites absolutely sucks; and many players who have lost money due to geolocation problems have had to swallow the loss despite the fact that they weren't responsible for the problems.

As I see it, the lack of the ability to use a database on many sites is a huge security risk for players. No one seems to be sure if the regulations in Nevada even allows for personal databases in that state. The WSOP rep stated immediately after the site opened that they weren't going to allow HM or PT. It has also been argued in some proposed state legislations that databases be banned. Regulators do a lot of talking about how they will provide a secure environment for online players to play, but the reality is that they are clueless about how to actually go about it.

What it always comes down to in reality is how honest and well run the business is. Regulation of various business' in the US has always been a bit of a joke. I think that anyone who thinks that the US regulators are there to help the players is dreaming.

Who issued that license? Bovada (Kahnawake) and Merge (Curacao) both make it easy to find their info on their websites. Can't find anything anywhere about WPN.

Generally the sites that have experienced big scandals have had Native American Reservation or small island licenses, so, again, I don't think it means much.

Nope. Nevada getting serious about regulating brick and mortar casinos changed Las Vegas from a mob town to one run by large corporations. Environmental regulation has had a huge impact on manufacturing, financial regulation a huge impact on banking. You can like or hate those changes, but no one involved thinks they are a joke.

I wouldn't expect any regulator to be perfect. Call me crazy, but I'll take my chances with a business that's forced to undergo financial audits over one that just says "trust me". Although I do trust WPN, for now, at least.

Costa Rica regulates WPN. That's why WPN is located in Costa Rica.

When it comes to cleaning up the mob it is more law enforcement than business regulators that accomplish that.

Regulators have been in bed with large corporations for a long time. That's part of the problem. I've seen people get paid off in places that I've worked. I've seen heads up phone calls. Probably the worst thing that I've seen with my own eyes was a large regulated horse racing track that was completely run by the Mafia. That has probably been cleaned up by now but certainly not by the regulators.

For every example that you can come up where regulation works, I can probably show you 5 where regulation has failed to the detriment of the environement, to lives lost in a myriad of tragedies like mine accidents and bad constuction, and to money lost due to the ineptitude of financial institutions.

I tried googling "Costa Rica Poker License" and all I got was a bunch of companies offering assistance in setting up shop in Costa Rica. Several of the sites mention how easy it is because no license is required.

So where was that license issued again? The place that all these sites promote as not requiring a license?

I'm not claiming that the site is breaking any laws in Costa Rica or anywhere else.
I'm not claiming that the licenses of the other sites serving the US offer any meaningful protection for players.

I was just surprised to see you assert that they are a licensed site, and to have Winning CEO give that a +1, when I'd never heard that before.

And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they have a general business license, a data processing license (mentioned in some of those google results), or a t-shirt that says "I'm Licensed To Ill, Thrill, and Kill'" that they bought on a boardwalk. But none of those things are what we usually think of when we discuss gaming licensing, so it would be disingenuous to claim that's what is meant by "licensed".

I guess I have to concede that, since I've never seen any of these headlines:

Bank doesn't fail, thanks to effective regulation!
Miners still not trapped, more at 11:00!
Our investigation finds local building is not a pile of rubble!
Government-required audit finds that poker site holds players funds in separate account from operating funds!
River not poisoned, regulatory body's role examined!

What you've done above is cite examples where regulations were ineffective or poorly enforced. How is that an argument against regulation?

Do you think those tragedies would be less likely to occur if there was no regulation? Do you think that track would be less likely to be controlled by the mob if there were no rules about who can own tracks? Do you think whatever operation needed to clean up its act fast when it got the tip that the inspector is coming would be run better if there were no inspectors?

Regulation can be excessive, ineffective, illogical, and corrupt. Like almost anything that can be done, it can be done poorly, and it often is.

I'd still rather have someone other than just the sites themselves attempting to ensure that games are fair and player funds are safe.

WPN seems to be doing the right thing without regulation. But it could have a new CEO tomorrow with a different plan.

There is clearly a problem in the industry in general with sites cheating players, or simply walking away with player funds. And the underground nature of the industry is part of what keeps the casual players away.

When you see something go wrong because of bad regulation, the oil well blowing up or the mine collapsing, it is generally a sign of a much larger problem. Regulatory agencies are generally not funded all that well to do what they are supposed to do. I doubt that the online poker regulators are going to be all that well funded to arbitrate on a large scale.

PokerStars ran its business well both prior to and after BlackFriday. Was that because of good licensing, or was that because of good business management? I tend to think it was good business management.

Here on 2+2, I often see posters write, 'Can't wait until these sites are regulated' when they are (rightfully or wrongly) ticked off at one site or another. I'm saying, don't hold your breath. Regulation isn't really there for the players. Aside from possibly making sure that players funds are safe, there isn't going to be much that will change for players. All the nasty little tricks that Merge has pulled on its players will still happen if a site so desires. It is always going to be up to the site as to how fair it is to its players.

I think that US players should be able to play where they want. The World Court thinks so too. That's not going to happen though. I think that the banner of regulation has been waved by politicians and casinos as a way of creating dissatisfaction with the status quo, so that we as players will more willingly accept, through regulation, what will actually be a less satisfactory gaming experience. I don't think that regulation is much more than a placebo.

Paul Hoppe (aka. Giant Buddha) suggested a few years ago that a "Players Bill of Rights" be written. His suggestions were pretty broad. I think that a Bill of Rights should include many more specific suggestions such as: the rake should always be shown on a table at least with a mouse hover over or that a certain length of notification be given before tournament coupon expirations or the cessation of VIP programs. There are a lot of things that should be incorporated into the regulation of online poker that we'll never actually see, simply because in reality the players have no real input.

I wouldn't be complaining about tournament structures if I didn't think WPN was a legitimate site that could be trusted.

It's just not convenient for 60% of the American MTT poker market to play poker on their network. West Coast players finish MTT's at 2-3 am...this is acceptable. East Coast and Central TZ players are required to play until 4-6 am...this is totally unreasonable.

I'd be willing to bet that most of WPN's MTT regulars throughout the week live on the West Coast. WPN needs to take a serious look at the geographical location of their MTT regulars. I guarantee you the majority of them reside on the West Coast.

Sshhh. The grown ups are talking. Take a break for a few days.

PS. I am East Coast and work full time and prefer turbo MTTs as a result but we need to move on with the discussion.

Grown ups have jobs to get to the in the morning during the week. Maybe, one day, WPN will understand that.

Well, thank you for proving my point...

This is true, but simply requiring sites to pass third-party financial and security audits would be a huge step. Not much effort or cost involved on the part of regulators to enforce that requirement.

Nobody's claiming otherwise. And the sites that steered themselves into cliffs? Bad Management (or possibly good thievery in some cases). Not sure how this is an argument against regulation.

Making player funds safe is kind of a big deal. I don't expect poker nirvana if regulated poker becomes widely available in the US.

If regulation keeps player funds safe and puts the marketing muscle of big business behind online US poker it may ultimately turn out well or poorly, but it won't be a sugar pill that has no real effect.

Freedom to play anywhere and the Bill of Rights sound like fine ideas. I agree 100% with your last sentence while still favoring regulation.

Just never stops on this site..........and believe me this **** happens 5-10 times a day, and you wonder why i bad mouth this thieving site bi-monthly, no question i never need to deposit and I cash monthly that they are able to relegate my winnings with **** like this..


*** RIVER ***: [8d 5d 10h 3d] [6d]
------ Summary ------
Pot: 27.46. Rake 1.20. JP fee 0.24
Board: [8d 5d 10h 3d 6d]
*Player Him shows: Straight Flush to 8 d [4d 7d Ah Ac]. Bets: 14.45. Collects: 13.73. Loses: 0.72.

*Player Me shows: Flush, A high [2d Jh 9h Ad] Low hand (A 2 3 5 6 ).Bets: 14.45. Collects: 13.73. Loses: 0.72.
Game ended at: 2015/1/8 x:x:xx

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

So the best hand won and you think it's rigged?

Oh whats that? You got the low and still think its rigged?

LOL...store brand or Reynolds ?

I hate threads like this. Why do you think you are so important the site would pick you specifically to rig the system against you? If the site was going to rig anything it would be rigged against everyone. Just take the beats and the coolers and the run bad and learn to live with it. If you are good you will profit and if not you will lose.

I love when you see this happen in a live game and say "OH MAN ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED" and they just blink.

I have a solution:

Don't have expectations. Problem solved.

I'm not sure I understand that handhistory. It looks like some sort of hi/lo game with a split pot. I have no idea what this thread is about.

The funny this is that he didn't even have a hand except the nut low, he was drawing to a bunch of stuff he's just pissed because the draw that "hit" him for the high end gave his opponent a straight flush.

Dude, you were freerolling, that doesn't mean you deserve the pot lol. Straight flush is good for half of it.

i cant think of anything more autistic than grinding hi lo games.

Does anyone know what the PRR abbreviations mean on some of the tables? Like I'll see two tables of the same limit and same game format, but with different names and sometimes PRR on them.

PRR stands for Progressive Rake Race. It means that those games are included in the Beast. Most games are included, but heads up games aren't included.

You mean it doesn't stand for Potential Rigged Rant table?