I know young fella who lives in California, who loves the economy there, and is making a killing off rentals! But, he's bored as all hockey sticks, being retired at a young age, so he spends his time with poker and chat. He tried exoctic birds but they were too freeking noisy! He resorted to poker and chat because they're silent hobbies! LOL He loves freerolls because they're such a challenge to him! He doesn't play to make money but he plays for the entertainment. He does play some cash games but he is turned off by the fact that some of the sites cator to the professional whose only motive is to clip the recreational player. He doesn't mind losing money because he has plenty; he does mind feeling like he's being taken advantage of, however.

That's why he enjoys America's Cardroom. He thinks it's better suited for the player who just wants to have fun. Believe me, he thinks ACR is a blast with all the Spin to Get Ins, Jackpots, Super Satellites...He's adamant that all the rest of the sites available to him are straight flat and BORING! I guess, to him, it all boils down to why one plays poker....does one play for fun, or does one play to survive? To my friend, poker is entertainment and he's not going to play if it ceases to be fun.

So, the more entertaining the poker site, the better the traffic will be! This little aspect of the game is missed by the wanna be professional players. Those who complain about traffic, don't wanna play at their skill level, who sit at empty tables waiting for a chump to come by who'll pay their internet bill, or who fill up a waiting list in the hopes of getting a few blows in on a fish before it dies are having an impact on the game for some.

We need more people like my friend to play, so rather than take his money and send him to the rail to find a more entertaining game to play....let him win ten times and get him once (lose more to win more). Make him feel like he's a winner....he doesn't care about the money....he just wants to play. If he wins ten times but loses once, he's good, and he's a winner! (He's not counting dollars, he's counting wins)

So, think about that when you're complaining about not having enough traffic to make the game profitable....there's lessons there.

Yup, that's him! LOL

Great post,

I too play a.c.r. daily for entertainment.
Do I like winning? Yes..

Did I love cashing out and buying a new flat screen??? Yes..

Did I love cashing out and paying a 6 month car insurance bill?? He'll yea!!

But I too am a rec player. I deposit about 300$ a month and lose it.
I work a day job and love playing online poker even though I'm a losing player.

If I go a couple of months without having to make a deposit, I actually consider that a win!! Lol.

It's the bum hunters that turn rec players like me off.
They make you feel like you were just scammed as opposed to losing money on a fun game..

I live in New York and most of my friends and family live in jersey.
Do you know there are millions of people who spend real money on play chips and fake slot,s then deposit 10bucks on a "real cash" site.

Why is that??

My very good friend and his wife spend a lot of money on play chips and fake slot,s and they live in jersey!!
They refuse to play real money online because of the pro,s..and low life bum hunters .

When I first joined a.c.r. I almost gave up and went back to club w.p.t couse of it, but I stuck it out and improved my game.

There is no denying that zynga and it's counterparts have millions of people spending real money.

The guy that started this thread hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!

sparten. you're going to lose it somewhere you may as well lose it to the pros vs losing it to a casino or bookie.Maybe you should get a grip on your obv gambling addictionand stop gambling(esp since you can't afford to lose it) I too despise bumhunters but what you fail to realize is the poker sites and casino's are the biggest bumhunters of all.

I don't have a gambling addiction or an addiction of any kind..

I have allocated myself 75$ a week for my hobby and I actually consider poker quite meditative as well.

I live in New York so 75 a week is very affordable..

Poker is a dying game. Very little young blood comming in just a lot of multi table ers in there dirty boxers with bad breath just grinding away.

Even negranu mentioned something about the pro,s sometimes hurt there own sites..

I'm exactly the demographic that an online site would want.

I play daily.
I have discretionary money to spend.
BUT I want my entertainment value. If the minute I sit down, all the cockroaches come out and hit me over the head!!

Il just change my hobby or past time to exotic birds or something..

I enjoy playing people at my own skill level, why doesn't trash like you try it for a change..

You must be a bad player if players flock to you when they see you at a table. get better or quit, im sure you are addicted to gambling if you can't stop playing a game vs guy's you can't stand playing with.Funny you play daily for entertainment, yet don't have an addiction to gambling.I more times than not defend fish like yourself but jeez man you sure have a nasty tone.

I was exaggerating to get my point that trash grinders hurt the sites...

Your just personalizing on me to deflect from the argument!!!

I enjoy poker. Just like any past time or hobby. I enjoy the challenge and drive to improve my game. It has improved significantly.

However your insane need to focus on whether you think I'm addicted or not is interesting.

The user who created this post was absolutely correct. I agree with him and have seen it with my own eyes that college kids prefer spending real money on play chips then join a real cash site because of the grinders and multitablers!!!

http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/

I'm trying to have a serious discussion about improving online poker traffic..

Grow up dude!

Yup, we're the exact demographic the game needs to continue. That's what the professionals need too. But for the recreational players, the game has got to be fun. They don't like feeling like lollipops while their hard earned cash is in play. They're not playing to survive, they're playing for the joy of the sport. Once it becomes a job, requiring hours devoted to study, the game loses its entertainment value and enters the realm of WORK!

And that's what I like about ACR...they're striving to keep the entertainment value in the game by mixing it up a little....sorta like throwing in a wild card to skew the odds some in a home game.

If the wanna be professionals (online) knew what they were doing, they'd let the reckies win ten smalls to their one big, just to keep the game going. Gotta keep em coming back! Right? Kudos to the WPN for keeping the game fun!

From start to finish "nail on the head"

I play every day for fun, entertainment and meditative value..

I love winning, I love cashing out...

I lose more then I win by far..

I love the game and generally play micro,s after work and "low" on my days off..

Don't mind losing , don't mind depositing BUT I don't want to feel like a lollipop...

THERE are millions if people spending billions if play chips and won't spend a penny on "real cash"

It almost kept me on club wpt instead of doing "real cash"

Don't want to and probably shouldn't tap the glass (esp. on this site) but I can't understand the reason of playing a game if your purpose isn't to win especially when the sole purpose of the game is to *win money*.

I love winning money but just being objective..

There is a reason that online poker isn't growing as fast as it should..

If I take a lollipop from a child "I don't exactly consider myself a pro"

If I play my friends children and take thete lunch money , I don't consider myself a pro.

When I win a good long hard match "I consider myself a very competitive player..

This is an opinion that is shared with many people who care about the industry and community. Not just themselvesf..

The ratio of pro,s to rec has become lop sided and every time New blood comes to a site he is ambushed and runs away.

Something has too.be done about that. What it is I don't know.

The only thing left on sites are the daily grinders..

You tapped it. It's perspective. Some play because they WANT the money, while others play because they HAVE the money. The delima arises when they're are too many WANTERS and too few HAVERS. Some people really do play just to try to keep their money....they have plenty already and life starts to get boring so putting their money at risk is the fun of it. One can only eat so much prime rib and go on so many cruises until they realize that getting fat and sea sick isn't as much fun as they once thought. So, setting aside cliff jumping in wingsuits, poker is the next biggest thrill they have. It's perspective....to some the goal of the game is to "win money" and to others the goal of the game is to "risk money!"

To find your answer:
Ask yourself why Larry Flint gambles millions of dollars on single hands of blackjack if he already has too much money from which to begin.

I'm just a working class guy from the Bronx...

Probably live in less square footage then the average welfare mom..

Small scottrade account and some saving,s..

Only poker is just my entertainment expense and a great way to wind down or spend an afternoon.

Between the last 2 administration,s the only wealth is working for government.or the handful of corporate robber barons that everyone uses as an example to tax the private sector working class(working poor)

The point is correct though!!!!

There are too many people now a days who just want to bum hunt and the rec player is overwhelmed..
Taking away any fun the player would have and make.him want to deposit again..

These lowlife low class grinders are still living in the past and are cannibalizing the online business model. Thete too many insatiable takers and not enough givers. Sound like the same problem in politics too, lol..

Yes, and that was what I was trying to put out there. All these guys complaining about not having enough action at the cash tables and whining about new things, like the jackpot games and freebuys that bring in new players, are the one's stringing their own nooses. Some people really do play poker as a form of entertainment. And, if the "wanna be pro's" would act a little more professional and stop pushing the "reckies" away, it'd be easier for them to make a living off the game. More players, more dollars, more fun.

And that's why I like the WPN with the ACR....it's bringing fun back into the game. It's not this stiff GTO geared sorta place...not some nitty reg poker kinda thing....it's poker the average 40/10/0.30 player can enjoy.

I actually cash quite often, I also deposit quite often..

The 2 times I actually got my account over 500$ I withdrew the funds and it was great..

Most if the time when I place a couple of times within the same week and I have an abundance of funds, I enter in a couple of "medium" tournaments and try to go for a real score. I generally lose but enjoy the challenge and enjoy raising my skill level and playing against good competition.

These bum hunters only want to play against noob,s and lite girls..
If any competent player sits next to them the run!! Away, lol and then call themselves pro,s..

Who,s the "bum"?????????

I am very supportive of winning and a.c.r.. they are proactive and I like the style of the lobby as opposed to full flush and b.o.l.

I put up with there growing pain because there worth it and have the fastest cash outs and honest cards as well as good c.s.

On my vacation I actually played on "stars" and find a.c.r. better. They just need too keep increasing traffic but not to the massive levels of stars.

Fast cash out isn't always a good thing.

Definition of a bum

1. A tramp; a vagrant.
2. A lazy or shiftless person, especially one who seeks to live solely by the support of others.
3. An incompetent, insignificant, or obnoxious person. The batter called the pitcher a bum.

v. verb

1. To live by begging and scavenging from place to place. Often used with around.
2. To pass time idly; loaf. Often used with around.
3. To acquire by begging; cadge.

adj. adjective

1. Inferior; worthless. gave me bum advice; did a bum job of fixing the car.
2. Disabled; malfunctioning. a bum shoulder.
3. Unfavorable or unfair.




Professional poker players work hard to stay above the average skill level. Well most of them do. It is a game that can be played many different ways. If you can play against a bad player why would you play against a good player? They have one goal and it is to make a living playing poker. You calling them lowlifes and bums makes no sense at all. They are just trying to do their job the easiest way possible. It is the same at any job really. Are you going to do something the hard way if there was a easier way? If you would then your boss would probably tell you that you are doing it wrong. So my advise to you is try to get better at the game not complain cuz you are getting hunted down.

It's such a white trash lifestyle...

If I take my nephews lunch money knowing "they literally have no chance" what am I??

It's all'm part of the game.

I'm not looking at it as selfish as you are.

I'm thinking of the online poker community as a whole .

The ratio has been overturned so much and all that's left is hungry grinders that whenever there is any new blood it's killed instantaneously!!!

We have over hunted our prey, we have over fished the oceans...

There are a lot of people who spend money on poker and other forms of gambling but refuse to join because it's all vampires and no humans .

Are you capable of an objective discussion or are you just capable of narcissism and self absorbed.

Honestly not sure how to respond to you. WOW!!! Your nephew always has a chance.

It is all part of the game.

Im not a professional poker player. I work 5 days a week. I am done 1800 on wpn. I get bum hunted by very good hu reg all the time. I simply sit out or play them to get better.

I disagree that the fish are gone. You ever play at bovada? I am up 10k on there. The skill level is so much higher on wpn. Humans reproduce and rec make money by working. Its not an ocean it is a game.

Are you capable of an objective discussion or are you just capable of narcissism and self absorbed? Pretty sure I am pretty open minded.

Why you bring race in to this. White trash life style? I don't get it.

Yes, I agree to an extant. The name calling and stuff doesn't help....especially from a credibility standpoint. And, I also agree that playing at skill levels lower than your own is the way to profit off the game. But, I think that the main point is being missed here.

To use an analogy:

If all the "sharks" eat all the "fish," then they're going to die of starvation eventually. However, if the "sharks" learn to feed the "fish" and harvest them effeciently and selectively, they'll be able to sustain a longer lifespan.

And, so it goes with poker. And that's what one sees. When the "reckies" are gone, the "regs" have to turn on each other, the games become more nitty and rake becomes a more serious issue to their bankrolls.

And, that's why I like the WPN and the ACR....they're doing a good job trying to keep the pond supplied with fish. The "reg's" need to figure out how to protect the "crop." That's all I'm saying.

How is WPN protecting the fish? Their leaderboards take money from smaller stakes and give them to higher stakes The only reason they have them is so people play more. They got one thing on their mind and it is money.

The sharks can't eat all the fish. This game is different from the ocean. The fish in the ocean never once think they can eat the shark. In this game people see it on tv and think I can beat these guys. These jackpots will break fish faster than any bumhunter will.

The WPN isn't protecting the fish; they're just stocking the pond. It's up to the reg's to figure out a way to protect and harvest the crop efficiently.

Take what's happening with Carbon as an example:

Cash games got too nitty, the micro tourneys disappeared, Gaurentees increased to feed the regs, the player field got top heavy, and now it's no longer profitable to play there. Merge seen it coming so they started banning "extremily aggressive" winning players, but that didn't help. Now their thread is filled with complaints and there's a run on the bank.

Anyway, I think "shark hunting" is the only solution. Rail the cash games taking stats with pencil and paper....drop in fresh with min BI, skew your table image with whale like stats for the sharks DB, leave, return later with max BI and get stackin' ....wash, rinse, repeat....LOL....don't mean short stacking, or going south....just straight aggro "shark hunting!" Blom style!

BTW...did you finish that stoxtrader thread?

I misread your post my bad. No i read couple pages today. Leatherass perma banned himself from 2plus2. LOL I personally believe that wpn trys but obviously got their head up their azz.