You must be Tim Hardawy?

What about doing a $10, 1k gtd on demand that runs constantly with 45mins late reg?

I dont want to overlay $400 on each one

I'm more concerned about actual play in the late stages vs pointless small blind jumps in the early stages. The way your tourneys are structured for 5 hour late registration tourneys makes for a lot of play in the beginning of the tourneys. They are a sh i te show late as the blind jumps are much larger than in the early stages. This is pretty problematic considering you can't chop.

Check out the 5hr late reg Early Edition 7k. Just 370 runners and it takes over 10 hours to finish. Average FT stack is 22.5bbs. Basically a shove/reshove fest.

https://gyazo.com/a9012761a83db1387227e563e26b4037

So now you want tourneys to run longer???

I think what he wants is for the beginning to play a bit shorter and the mid-late and end stages to play a bit deeper. That would take a whole redo of the current structures, moving starting stacks down to like 3k, then re-configuring the levels completely including adding a few more later on.

I kind of agree with the point he's making, but not that much. Some of the games have big jumps at certain levels (the jump from 1k to 1.5k in some MTTs, in an example.)

There wouldn't be an overlay, for example if it were a $1k Gtd it would need 100 people to run at $10 each. Then late reg for 30mins or so to boost it further.
An on demand in the MTT lobby I think would work well.

Oh so it starts with 100 people so GTD no overlay?

Well, I'm not sure it'd run, but there's a lot more players than their used to be. It'd be cool to basically have 120 man SNGs running. I don't think there's much to lose by trying it out. It's at least an interesting idea.

That being said, you could probably also add in a few more of those AIOF satties again if you think it's a good idea haha

I will tell you what... If you can show me one on demand other than a sat that has had more than 50 runners i will try it.

Is that a fair deal

HAHAHA

$2 plo8 on demands would likely hit 50+ at times and would fit in well between the $1 holdem and $3 holdem on-demands. The 15's regularly get 30+ and I've seen first-hand plenty of 7's hit 40+...there might have even been one or a few 50+ entry games in there somewhere(I'm kinda curious now what the highest # of entries was in these so far - if you can find it tell us). You already have a pretty solid player base for them because of all the nice smaller-buyin o8 mtts that you have lately. One of the big problems though is that the 7's are too big of a jump for a lot of these players, and offering $2 games would fix this nicely and eventually provide a bit of a boost to the 7's and 15's hopefully. Idk if I would play many myself, but I already have a few guys I'd stake for them tbh.

I agree about the blind structures being a bit too heavy on the # of early blind levels too, even for many of the 3 hour late reg games. It might be worth a try for a few mtts as a kind of test. I'd say it's definitely worth the risk to give it a shot.

They wouldn't run longer, it's basically trading some early levels for more mid-late levels. Idk how it would do anything about the FT, but it certainly seems like it would give more incentive to regging kinda early and maybe getting more entries overall.

That is such an accurate observation. Somewhere there is a mythological being that can register one time into a 5 hour late registration game and have the same ratio of ITM as they do in 2 or 3 hour registrations, it is not me. 100% agreement with this perspective.

A 250 player OD game? lol There are times I have waited a half hour for 5 and 10 9man SNGs to start. Registering for a $30+ game during the day can take hours for it to start, weekends not included. A $5-10 OD game with short late registration will usually have 2 dozen players. Isn't 250 individual players about 14.2% of total peak traffic?

Personally, I'd love to see some more entry levels, up and down from current, for Omaha games. A good way to feel out the desire/demand for stud, draw, and FL games would be to add them into the OD list, $2, 4, and 10 for each. OD games will likely run fairly regularly because of the SnC points. Guaranteed to have no overlay and if they are running with any regularity, you can add a couple of lower MTT GTDs as a trial while limiting downside overlay.

The problem is they're structured slow early so they can incentivize people to re enter or just enter 3-5 hours into a tourney. Otherwise people are buying into 1 big blind or something like that. They then counter that by making the structure fast later in the tournament. So what you end up with is a lot of play early and very little play late when its most important.

A bit off topic but unless you are picking really poor spots to re enter this is not true. Re entering 3 times is no different than enter 3 different $22s, you don't have to play them as though they're a $50 event for bankroll requirement reasons.

FWIW - There's a few ways of thinking about it, but this example is about the simplest for my brain. Proper BRM for a $22 freezeout with 150 runners is probably not the same as for a $22 re-entry that gets 450 entries. FT payouts for the re-entry will be bigger and you will score them less frequently, which generally leads to larger swings.

When not properly bankrolled you do. your right when you have the proper roll a 22 is a 22 and you can play/re-enter as many as it takes. However I was laying it out there for those shot taking on a smaller roll. Wanted to point out that you should be prepared to spend more than one buy in. Everyone views this different and thats fine.

However I think it is important to understand that no matter what the buy in, you should view it as a bigger buy in because you will spend more on average in the long than one buy in..

If I staked someone I would send more than one buy in to insure max ev

I think what he was trying to explain to you is that each entry can pretty much be viewed as its own nearly-independent trial, unless you're just punting away lots of buyins really late or in bad spots in general. It definitely can make you feel like you need a bigger BR for them though, so I understand where you're coming from.

As max cut said, a freezeout that hits 150 entries is less variance than the re-entry of the same stakes that hits like 450 entries(rough numbers, but still you get the point). It's not so much about being rolled for the variance of a freezeout vs. re-entry, as it is about being rolled(and just mentally prepared) for the variance that comes with having a ton of extra entrants and those big ass gtds.

It's a nice way to get in roughly double or triple the total number of entries than would be possible with freezeouts, but if it gets to be only mostly solid regs doing this then it will make that mtt appear much tougher overall.

If you staked someone, you likely wouldn't be doing much (or hardly any tbh) of the volume on a per-tournament basis anyway. They'd just use a proper BR and re-enter at the right times as needed.

Edit - I'm not that great with estimating the holdem entries and such, but in o8 people sometimes re-enter like crazy...I'm assuming holdem is kinda similar for the most part.

With all else being equal, playing $22s with double the entries requires higher BRM. You can look at as playing with a BRM for a larger stake, or you can look at it as playing with a BRM for $22s with a larger field. Either way, you should still have more $ in your bank roll.

There are certainly other considerations which can also affect the BRM, like whether you expect a higher ROI in the re-entries (higher expected ROI allows lower BRM). Generally I would expect the BRM to increase overall for re-entry versus freezeout.

It really depends on this part though, there are some very soft freezeouts (especially if many good players bust early) and then you have some regfest re-entries like many on-demands lol.

For me, I don't mind either one and play both. I guess it's good to have a mix of both to suit all kinds of players though. I don't really mind 2, 3, or 5-hour late reg either, they all have their own pros and cons kinda. I'd be happy with a pretty even mix of those too.