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Old 05-12-2017, 02:03 AM   #1
TooCuriousso1
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High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

Is there a manager someone can put me in touch with to speak about players whom I KNOW are using bot-ware? I feel when I go the route of sending emails to support nothing ever gets done and it's not taken seriously.
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:28 AM   #2
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

hopefully this isn't my affinity for gossip talking, but i really feel you have an obligation to out them on here as soon as possible. there is no guarantee the people who are playing against them will receive restitution from the site, so it seems to me there's a moral imperative to notify players that they're being taken advantage of by an immoral actor, don't you think?
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Old 05-12-2017, 04:48 AM   #3
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Originally Posted by TooCuriousso1 View Post
Is there a manager someone can put me in touch with to speak about players whom I KNOW are using bot-ware? I feel when I go the route of sending emails to support nothing ever gets done and it's not taken seriously.
pm Winning_TD imo
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Old 05-12-2017, 02:36 PM   #4
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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pm Winning_TD imo
This. Also send one to WPN REP.

Both are extremely helpful
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:29 PM   #5
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Originally Posted by flimpy View Post
hopefully this isn't my affinity for gossip talking, but i really feel you have an obligation to out them on here as soon as possible. there is no guarantee the people who are playing against them will receive restitution from the site, so it seems to me there's a moral imperative to notify players that they're being taken advantage of by an immoral actor, don't you think?
While I don't have a problem with the network outing accounts after an investigation is completed and players are found to be cheating, individuals outing others can't be allowed. There is no way one individual can have as much information on a suspected cheater than the network itself and will cause many innocent people to be accused of cheating when they weren't.
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:01 PM   #6
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

You really think that everyone is playing fairly on WPN?
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:16 PM   #7
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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You really think that everyone is playing fairly on WPN?
No but before dragging someone's name through the mud one better have conclusive evidence that they cheated
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:01 PM   #8
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

Well players naming bots online has found bots in the past on here. Alot of times players have to police this stuff because the sites cant/wont get the job done.

Also if im a player not running a dreammachine and people are saying i am id take it as a compliment. We know there out there though as highstakes players have said they know it so its something to be aware of.

Thing is id take evidence i have first to the site before naming the players anyways because you give the players a heads up if you name them in thread first.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:36 PM   #9
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Well players naming bots online has found bots in the past on here. Alot of times players have to police this stuff because the sites cant/wont get the job done.

Also if im a player not running a dreammachine and people are saying i am id take it as a compliment. We know there out there though as highstakes players have said they know it so its something to be aware of.

Thing is id take evidence i have first to the site before naming the players anyways because you give the players a heads up if you name them in thread first.
And a lot of the time players get it wrong. It's like the old saying, it's better ten guilty men go free as opposed to one innocent man go to jail.

And I don't buy that if someone came here and claimed your account was cheating that you would take it is a compliment because what they are saying then is that you can't win on your own skills, you need help to win.

i am also saying you don't have to trust the site the site to get it right but calling someone a cheat without concrete evidence is just as wrong as cheating itself.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:42 PM   #10
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

I would take it as a compliment because their saying im playing so good at poker that they think im using a dream machine. Like yeah I'm that good beeatch! That is if im playing legit of course.

Its not like u can judge a persons character online to say their cheating unless you're a known IRL reg which is completely diff then a random online person calling out a random account. Like if your Hastings, ZeeJustin, or someone whos been caught MA/cheating in the past and being called out for it when your not i could see taking offense to it.

So no i wouldnt take any offense to it all its a compliment of someones game if their not cheating and being calling out for playing that strong of a game that you would be using software.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:52 PM   #11
ThatsAGoodCard
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

this has been around for a long time, no?
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:58 PM   #12
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

Yeah this stuff has been going on for awhile now. I know pokerstars has asked players to record video of certain high stakes player for multiple sessions if they suspect they could be running something. I hope ACR does this but not sure if they do.

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2016/...deos-23891.htm
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Old 05-14-2017, 02:18 AM   #13
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Originally Posted by yellowfever View Post
Well players naming bots online has found bots in the past on here. Alot of times players have to police this stuff because the sites cant/wont get the job done.

Also if im a player not running a dreammachine and people are saying i am id take it as a compliment. We know there out there though as highstakes players have said they know it so its something to be aware of.

Thing is id take evidence i have first to the site before naming the players anyways because you give the players a heads up if you name them in thread first.
In those cases the people had a heap of evidence before going public. One thing that I will put a stop to is people throwing names out and hoping they're right on one as that happens a lot here. However if someone has actual tangible evidence i'd let that thread stand.
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:53 AM   #14
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

I looked around the site for a list of programs allowed/disallowed/partially allowed (like the list on the site that shall not be named) and couldn't find anything. There's a huge gray area when it comes to poker software and every network seems to have a different stance. I've been using that other list as a rough guide for now as to what I can and cannot use(and when) since it seems to be the most restrictive(for the hud-allowing sites anyway) and therefore the safest.

If WPN has any differences, they really need to make them clear or a lot of players could unknowingly break the rules. Even if it's the same it really should be clearly listed somewhere.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:36 PM   #15
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

It's totally not sketchy that certain, non offensive, posts were deleted ITT.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:37 PM   #16
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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It's totally not sketchy that certain, non offensive, posts were deleted ITT.
I deleted them not WPN. One of them accused a high volume reg with no supporting evidence which I stated above I would not allow. Another stated it was happening at all stakes with no supporting evidence.

Not sketchy at all, my previous post stating as such said I will moderate things with no supporting evidence.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:21 PM   #17
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

And who are you to mod this forum? You are friends with TD, have business with WPN.You want more conflict of interest than than this?
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:51 PM   #18
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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And who are you to mod this forum? You are friends with TD, have business with WPN.You want more conflict of interest than than this?
People made a thread asking for more moderation of this forum. I volunteered along with some others. TD chose me because he's familiar with me. I have set some very basic and simple guidelines on how to make "cheating is going on" posts. Frankly if people can't follow those guidelines I really don't care for their opinion.
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:32 PM   #19
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

I can't say that I understand the extent of this perceived problem, I certainly can't say I have reason to believe a lot of people are using such software, even if I think it's naive to think that none are - but I can say that a moderator who is also a staker deleting those accusations seems more sketchy than the accusations existing themselves. At least that's how I feel.
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:35 PM   #20
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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And who are you to mod this forum? You are friends with TD, have business with WPN.You want more conflict of interest than than this?

Actually when you really think about your post it really is stupid. if thrash is deleting posts accusing others of cheating it could be said he is protecting those players which in turn would harm WPN. **** I hate being the voice of reasoning around this place.

Btw, if he is doing the right thing there is no conflict of interest.
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:02 PM   #21
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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I can't say that I understand the extent of this perceived problem, I certainly can't say I have reason to believe a lot of people are using such software, even if I think it's naive to think that none are - but I can say that a moderator who is also a staker deleting those accusations seems more sketchy than the accusations existing themselves. At least that's how I feel.
As a backer i'd want cheating fixed as much if not more than anyone so I don't really get the connection you're making there. I do suppose as a backer I worry about a random baseless accusation scaring off new/recreational players, now that could be a conflict but I think that's true for a large majority as well. Anyone who has followed my opinion on this matter will know I think there is a problem going on across all sites. Even with that reality there needs to be rules to how these things are brought up. There have been and will continue to be plenty of posts allowed to stand with tangible evidence.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:34 AM   #22
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Originally Posted by Thrash370 View Post
As a backer i'd want cheating fixed as much if not more than anyone so I don't really get the connection you're making there. I do suppose as a backer I worry about a random baseless accusation scaring off new/recreational players, now that could be a conflict but I think that's true for a large majority as well. Anyone who has followed my opinion on this matter will know I think there is a problem going on across all sites. Even with that reality there needs to be rules to how these things are brought up. There have been and will continue to be plenty of posts allowed to stand with tangible evidence.
This, especially the bolded part lol.

WPN pays for a place for us to complain to them, and he just helps to mod it for free. Idk about the rest of you, but this site has treated its players better than any other site lately...especially if you're a US player.

Naming all of everyone's suspected cheaters/botters/whatever publicly here is just silly and will lead to more BS and wasted time/unnecessary headaches for the site's security and others, than actual results(if any).

If someone really wants to help with the problem, look to the ways people have been successful in catching cheating. Just as the cheaters get more advanced ways to cheat these days, we get more ways to track opponents' plays and such...which can really limit what they can get away with. We don't even have to stop it all completely, we only just have to limit it to the point where it's just not worth it for them anymore. Obv don't post it publicly, why even tell the cheaters or even potential ones how they can get caught?

Last edited by lotuspod2; 05-16-2017 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 05-16-2017, 08:19 AM   #23
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

Beep boop beep
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:04 AM   #24
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Beep boop beep
Found one!
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:52 PM   #25
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Re: High Stakes Players using bot-assistance software

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Originally Posted by Thrash370 View Post
As a backer i'd want cheating fixed as much if not more than anyone so I don't really get the connection you're making there. I do suppose as a backer I worry about a random baseless accusation scaring off new/recreational players, now that could be a conflict but I think that's true for a large majority as well. Anyone who has followed my opinion on this matter will know I think there is a problem going on across all sites. Even with that reality there needs to be rules to how these things are brought up. There have been and will continue to be plenty of posts allowed to stand with tangible evidence.
The reason I'm saying it can look sketchy is that people could reasonably think there is a chance you are giving that software to the people you back. To be clear, I'm not saying I think you are, rather, I'm explaining the connection that I think people could make.

And second, the post that was deleted didn't make any specific accusation against any person, just said that it happens at stakes other than high stakes. While it was baseless, it also wasn't accusing any specific person, so I don't see how this is the same thing as say, baselessly accusing a high stakes reg of using the software. I didn't notice the post accusing a specific reg. I would have deleted that as well.
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