You are really asking this despite everything that WPn has done in the past? I mean, some of their decisions don't make a ton of sense, that shouldn't be shocking to anyone.

This accomplishes nothing if they don't get rid of the past colluders who are already registering it up for the 8 man dons (first two guys):

Welp, I guess we know where WPN stands.

For those who don't feel like clicking the DON thread.

You can view the hands by clicking game info in the main lobby ---> game player then searching by hand #

379657924
379660790
379661396
379662663

NoTurn sitting out:
380048747
380051095

These are just from two games but there's obv more to this.

is there a list somewhere of these 2 and other known/suspected colluders?

obv nothing will change going from 6 to 8 man don's, still going to be plenty of collusion with the CEO's attitude of "if you think people are cheating don't play"

WPN is doing a lot of things right compared to the other US facing sites but this is one they are handling terribly and people need to be aware of it

What, now you're going to make this the DON Collusion Thread Part 2?

why not its pry warranted

SC,

This was DON collusion part deux from post one.

Because if the same 10 people who have been posting there start posting the same thing here, they are hijacking this thread. The methodology used in that thread to prove collusion is beyond horrible. They've chased anyone who isn't a "believer" out of that thread; they shouldn't start copying their close minded beliefs into other threads simply because they've stopped getting enough traffic there.

If that's how you see it, then this thread should either be transferred into the DON Collusion thread or into the Wasteland. Threads don't have Part 2's.

SC,

This thread became obsolete when 8 man DONs popped up.

Please post SNs of players you feel were unjustly accused.


The other DON thread is a bit cluttered so I'll start a new thread tomorrow.
DON Collusion Part 3: Now with more proof

Why is it such a big deal about collusion being discussed in a thread regarding a new format change that was done in hopes to help that issue?

If it bothers someone so much why do they continue to read and post in the thread when they could just ignore it all together which would make it a more peaceful place?

I've said this many times now. It has absolutely nothing to do with players who I feel have been rightfully or wrongfully accused. It has everything to do with the absurd way that you folks have gone about "proving" your suspicions.

Individuals' hands can make a player suspicious but they are just never going to be proof, especially when you generally can't see the whole cards. Posters in that thread have staunchly refused to post real stats that could prove collusion and instead have resorted to a belief system where one needs to believe in order to see.

I don't really think that's been the case lately with the exception of the last HH Eli posted.

Not only has it been the case, it is exactly what you just copied from that thread to provide as proof in this thread.

Like I said, there's more to it than that. A lot of it has to do with game flow that can't really be posted. They would never play the way they did in those hands vs randoms.

Top column is vs. Drowning Fish, MangoKush and NoTurnUnstoned1
Bottom column excludes Drowning Fish, MangoKush and NoTurnUnstoned1


FlopNuts6969 is the main account.


MangoKush just started playing so he's not up there yet.

^^^ - yeah since you can't view the NoTurnUnstoned1 account it would be mega telling I'm sure if you could see it.

I decided to watch team Mango/NoTurn try to flop nuts a little bit ago and give to one another in the new 8 man dons. After about 10 minutes of watching these hands happen:

380604457 - courtesy double up but it's a protection bet because NoTurn will call all shoves from short stacks in attempt to save Mango but if he don't get called no worries cause Mango has NoTurn dominated and if he does three outer himself oh well it gives them a hand to claim they can bust one another lol

380605179 - it might look normal to some but this is a chip up play that any good reg will understand if they come in they should be calling shortest stack getting over 2:1 so they aren't going to open so light where they can't call that in a DON or if they do then they likely still cringe call.

These aren't the best examples (Santa will think all is fine I'm sure) to those who don't understand what is going on but I'm sure if I was to continue to watch I would see more of their chip dumping soft playing shenanigans.

Yes, I'm well aware that you guys have added all that Sharkscope nonsense to your body of "proof". Until you guys start actually gathering numbers for the stats that have already been suggested to you and also start showing numbers for the claims being made by posters, you're just wasting everyone's time.

I haven't kept score lately. The number of accused must be up to 30 or 35 by now and still no one has bothered to gather any real stats on a single one of them to either prove their guilt or innocence (yes, if you are doing it objectively, you may very well have to prove a player's innocence).

You need to also keep in mind that you are not WPN's security team.

It's obvious Santa works for WPN. Nobody can be that stupid.

I think that you've just proven that someone can, in fact, be that stupid.

Proof in example, pot kettle black

This is a real shame seeing as 6-man DONs were my game, I should hope these new games don't take too much longer. I think taking longer to fill will have to be a given, we used to be able to get a handful of games running concurrently, now I expect we will be waiting for even one game to start. But then how much longer are these games going to run once they've even begun? On such a small scale I'm fearing the additional two players will result in an exponential increase of...everything, variance, time to register, game length, etc. This is why I stayed away from 9-man SNGs but I guess the top half are still getting payed and that's all that matters.

I guess I should be "grateful" they kept DONs at all. I feel if WPN handled a lot of little things differently they could dominate the US market, it's there for the taking until (if ever) Pokerstars/Fulltilt get regulated.

well just to give you some perspective on a few things since your arrogance and straight up ignorance on the subject is stinking up the thread, the superuser on ap/ub wasnt busted by the "security team", it was busted by the PLAYERS. Show some decency toolbag and stop trying to railroad this thread with your nonsense. If you feel the players investigation isnt up to par, then how bout you contribute in a way that doesnt include running your mouth like anyone is here to please you or has to answer to you. Your lack of DoN-knowledge shines bright in this thread, damning hands have been posted but you are still here saying its nothing sufficient.

So you're dismissing those SS stats and HHs that are pretty damning while asking for PT stats that will show they play nearly the same as most DON regs with a perhaps higher r/f to 3bet %? No one is going to actually play with them in order to proof something that is obvious to everyone.

There's really no explanation as to why a DON reg would limp 24o utg then check it down vs a player who has been sitting out for 20+ hands.

You're either trolling, colluding or stupid either way I'm done arguing with you.

I don't know why I am doing this but here we go. You do realize that there have been at least 4 accounts that have been banned for collusion that were reported by players based on this " belief" right? That's shows that the players here may know what they are talking about.

I think that your arrogance and ignorance has just stunk up the thread pretty badly. Those of us who were around at that time and played at UB know perfectly well that it was players like Josem who put a lot of work into working out the statistics that uncovered the scandal. It wasn't players posting annotated hands or players checking out sharkscope that accomplished that. If you are going to accuse people of cheating, you need to provide the statistics to back up your accusations. You of all people calling someone arrogant is pretty funny.

You're the third person now from that thread who has labeled me a possible colluder simply because I've criticized your methodology. And CastleFrank earlier in this thread stated that I was guilty of something, he just didn't know what, simply because my opinion was different than his. Earlier in this thread Beerbottlez suggested that a poster might be a colluder solely on the basis that the poster had written a few short troll posts. That some of you folks use the McCarthiesque tactic of labeling people colluders for no good reason really highlights why going about this needs to be done more objectively.

No one has ever suggested anything like comparing 3bet percentages. I have no idea where you are getting something so ridiculous from.

Someone mass-multitabling with their HUDs covering players seats may very well not notice that a player hasn't been sitting out for 20 hands (assuming 20 hands in itself isn't an exaggeration). To say that there is no explanation is a bit of an exaggeration.


You guys are the same group of posters who have chased anyone with differing opinions out of the DON Collusion thread.

And now you are the one misquoting someone Santacruz. I said you had some personal agenda and alterior motive. I never said you are guilty of anything. I also like the fact you chose to ignore my post about how it was players who got at least four accounts banned without any "hard evidence". And correct me if I am wrong but was it you who claimed to be watching Cyal8er on Merge and said he looked to be playing a straight up game there? Not sure but it is almost like you are coming to the defense of a confirmed colluder.