Hello everyone, my name is Anton, i'm new here and i would like to apologize in advance for my english.

I'm playing on the WPN tables, and me and a lot my friends, who of course are also playing - mentioned about a dozen bots that are playing with us.

Let me start with the list of the players:
vatahel - Czech Republic
dzustborabo - Czech Republic
8etman - Czech Republic
Ten5pirit - Czech Republic
Getana - Czech Republic
PokerWinX - Czech Republic
CameToLose - Czech Republic
sh1nob1 - Czech Republic
Mik666 - Thailand
lightochan - Latvia
DaWINcI77 - Latvia
TopGeer - Latvia
BulletStorm - Germany
BriAllin - Russia
MaDfRiStaiLER - Russia

I have stats on the mentioned players:

https://gyazo.com/cb2e6f595c94f9d42b62fab8901c7dee

https://gyazo.com/29daf465aac61c289f232c2c35679287

https://gyazo.com/a2724336a8a65a254d3860037722bcba

Also, a couple of hands.

https://gyazo.com/062c92f14817705bfa1d91ec1ff7655c

https://gyazo.com/0ca4732c4cc5978e2e6c10dee410bd50

The similarity about those players that i listed above, is enormous.
1) All of those players, are registered from Europe, most of them are from the Czech Republic, and also an interesting fact, all of them registered at the network on a period between July 2016 - August 2016.

2) They are opening with a minraise nevermind what are the blinds.

3) They are playing with a same "timings"

4) They are making a re-entry until it's possible and nevermind how many re-entries they have made already and what are the blinds on that moment. I understand that with that type of field it might be profitable to re-enter 3, maybe even 4 times, but to make a dozen of re-entries when the first place is around 25 buy-ins, i'm very doubtful that it is a +ev and that a human will do so.

5) As you can see, their W$WSF is abnormally high.

I'm really asking you to take this seriously, because after all, i think all of us, the honest players, would like to play against each other and not against a machine.

I will try to get some more hands, some more stats, but i think, all that i mentioned already is enought to start an investigation about this issue.

Thank you in advance.

Going to let this thread stand as it meets the requirements of trying to bring evidence. Any posts of BOTS ARE RAMPANT BECAUSE I SAID SO that aren't constructive will however be shot down in this thread.

That being said OP thank you for your concern for the poker community that led you to gather evidence. I have seen some of the posts over on the gypsy poker forum where you originate from.

All of that being said 2 and 4 are good for establishing patterns that they are all following together but at the same time are things reasonable humans do. Your logic is faulty on "but to make a dozen of re-entries when the first place is around 25 buy-ins, i'm very doubtful that it is a +ev and that a human will do so." If you are in a $10 mtt for 8 buyins odds are you are not getting back $80 in EV on your 8th buyin but if your 8th buyin nets you $12 in EV it is in fact +EV as it only cost you $10.

My recommendation is not to get that focused on that aspect and to contact others who have exposed past bot rings that are good at statistical forensic analysis.

Always see most of these players in pretty much every MTT I play.

Played an interesting hand this week vs PokerWinX where he SNAP called my shove on the river with 10 high when I turned the nut flush (he also had T6) for a 350bb pot

there are many donks and some good players on your list. i've played thousands of hands with most of those players and never once suspected any of them were bots or even the same person. your evidence is almost non-existent. the only reason this thread shouldn't be deleted is my brilliant reply which you're currently reading.

what is your name on WPN, adrianok?

I don't want to mention any of those guys by name, and I will double check their stats tomorrow when I play them, but a couple of those guys are laughably bad, like absolutely terrible, and a couple are incredibly straightforward and exploitable. Guys I am thrilled to see at my table. I would not be concerned about them being bots.

Thanks for your concern and attempting to point out some evidence.

First and foremost, what is your sample on these guys?

MTT samples are not typically not that big in itself, and a lot of the stats that you mentioned take a reasonable size to converge.

If you have video evidence of #3, it would be easy to justify. Self-reporting may lead to bias and if you recorded every one of these players acting, and compared the videos by the amount of time they took to act and we saw a pattern, then we may be on to something. Otherwise it's moot.

As mentioned above, #5 really really depends on sample size.

I guess I can understand your suspicion. I have caught myself surprised by some timings from a few of these guys, in terms of how quickly they can get out a precise bet that must be typed in. Honestly tho, that's the only time. A lot of these guys have some spew that would be difficult to program into a bot.

There's also little chance, in my mind, that they are connected. Likely not part of a bot ring or anything. I don't think they all play similarly. And I don't think they're good enough at poker to consider that people got together to get a bot ring started with mediocre/spewy bots.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few of those SN's were bots, but I do doubt its all of them. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some of these accounts were being used by multiple players either.

We could all pile HH's together and maybe find out for sure. That's the noble thing to do. But is it really that bad with them around if they are bots?

Non-humans should not be in the game. Period! Some of you guys are delusional by making comments like, "well if they are bad bots it is okay." You are too short sighted to see simple stuff like a couple of new lines of programming and maybe they aren't so bad anymore. Or that break even bots can take a ton of money off the site in the form of Sit & Crush. Or when a site with 10 bots becomes a site with 100 bots. Geez guys wake up.

I see these guys around a lot. Not sure how many hands I have on them. Think I play against ten5pirit the most... he just seems like a crusher that over play top pair OTF often. But in a few small gtd mtt I saw him re enter in the latter stage of the mtt which financial didn't make since

MaDfRiStaiLER - Saw this one play at a final table and man they run so good. I can't see how botting can make a player hit so good.

Anyone have hand history cause I would love to study and be ITM 35.5% too!

I have around 3k hands on each, on the Czech trio: dzustborabo, 8etman, Ten5pirit around 5k

...

augie, adrianok20

All those guys plays similar to those, who were playing at the 888 and Party. All of them are now banned on 888 and Party, but still not on WPN.

All same stats that i mentioned. High W$WSF, Low FTCB, Similar RFI

If they're banned from those sites they should definitely be banned from WPN. Get a Sharkscope account and check out how much they play a day. SS has alot of details but doesn't count rebuys.

I would love to hear WPN's take on this.

Look at the SS of the 5 CZ players.

https://gyazo.com/0c32bf8b1ebe3d6c8c7a934be996a5df

If they are part of a stable that mandates they always reenter their sharkscopes would make perfect sense. Sharkscope doesn't track reentries so people who are reentry heavy will both show high ITM%, low early finish % and extremely high ROIs. That does complicate cases like these. What you need is to talk to other regs who have sample on these players, put together your databases so you have a huge sample and work with someone who can do forensics on the statistics.

MaDfRiStaiLER (madfreestyler)

yrnitemare1 on Twitch has a lot of hands with this guy.. could probably ask him.

Hmm, you guys ever feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall? Adrianok you are smart, you've gathered evidence, you see a problem and are trying to do something about it. Truly though what do you think the outcome of your efforts will be? How many times has a similar thread been started? The problem isn't the individual bots, it is the environment that allows them to thrive. True change for any corporation comes when they are losing revenue. If players stop playing, the site will lose revenue, and a bot solution will appear, bots will go away, and players can play again. The problem is as long as players chose to play in a corrupted environment, the corporation sees no real incentive to address the problem.

I sent many reports for bots in cash games, but answer from support was "its not a bot". The amount of evidence was really enormous.

I dunno about botting, but I do know that there is a very similar name to "briallin" something like i(bri-all)in. The second name is butchered as hell, but have seen both screen names playing at the same time before and was suspicious they were the same person.. The day where I thought this--- was a long time ago, so my lack of specifics do not really make an arguable case.. I know both accounts were from russia when I checked that day, not sure if both same city.. Sorry I can't remember exact name, does anyone know the exact name of the screen name I am talking about?

Cliffs
I am suspicious of a player playing on two wpn skins at the same time

no real facts, but worth checking out imo.

You have to define evidence a little more?

When players suspect and gather info doesnt mean that they are correct. I have bot checked many names i have been given and i havent found one bot myself.

I'm just curious and possibly you can't divulge your methods. But from ACR's side, how do you identify a bot?

I can show you if you are playing right now?

Pretty sure a little box pops up on your screen that says something like "choose the correct hand".. I was playing a lot of tables, but something weird popped up on my screen on monday. and I just clicked it until it was gone. Figured it was a bot check.

If this is the only method to screen bots, then it would be easy for a programmer to circumvent this by adding a feature to the bots similar to recognizing captcha.