I'm following up to the thread doczensoosed recently added to let others know how simple it is to self-ban and un-self-ban on WPN.

The exact wording of my 9/15/16 email is as follows:

Hello,

I'd like to ban myself from ACR for 6 months. Can you please confirm that I'll be banned for that timeframe?

UN: unclet34

Thank you,

Anthony A



As always, WPN is prompt with their responses and banned me from my account the following day. On 11/15/16 I requested that my account be re-enabled. I was successfully playing and depositing within 24 hours.

In March 2017 I request another self ban for 6 months. In May I was up and playing again.

I'm adding this thread because I'm on the brink of requesting a permanent ban even though my gambling is under control 99% of the time. Please be more strict with your terms and conditions.

Thank you,

unclet34

I do think something needs to be done about this, especially now that it's clear this wasnt a one off and that ACR's stated responsible gaming page and TC is a load of garbage.

I didn't comment more before because Winning_TD really did his best, but no I'm not happy with outcome.

ACR basically said "too bad we can we do whatever we want, even if its obvious it's absolutely wrong". I also think that fact that the other thread was able to be closed is suspect as it seems ACR just wants this issue to go away; people should be allowed to express their opinions concerning this situation.

I guess its fortunate that relatively soon legal poker may be coming NY, perhaps i'll just take break until then.

I think this policy needs to change, and would encourage anybody affected by it to come forward, as its just not right. As guess until now ACR has been relying on peoples embarrassment of a sensitive subject to keep it quiet. All around a bad taste

So i'm going to just breakdown ACR's reasoning in this case:

"You did write an email asking for a self exclusion yes, however, you didn't say it was because you have a gambling problem or what not, if you had said that your ban would of been forever with no way of re opening the account."

Says nothing about that here:

As with the legal US online poker responsible gaming recommendations, a reputable poker website should also offer the player a chance to impose self-exclusion. This means that you can ask to be excluded from playing on the site for a set period of time. This stops players from getting too addicted to the game and if you feel you need it, it's a good option to take.
Once you make the decision to set up a self-exclusion period it cannot be reversed.


"As you weren't really telling us you had a problem and you confirmed your details that you wanted it re opened we allowed that."


No, I didn't say I had a problem, I'm not sure I do. I wanted to take a break because I was spending to much and tilted.


So basically, I asked for a timed self exclusion per your own stated rules. And you subtly threaten account closure if I do so by saying I need to state I have a gambling addiction if I want one. So you give the players a choice: do not expect a self exclusion to be enforced or ask for one, or have your account closed.

This is basically blackmailing players to keep quite about you breaking your own rules, and then blaming/shaming the player into keeping quiet by insinuating they must have a problem if they want a self exclusion and will have their account closed permanently if they want a enforceable exclusion.

All the while completely ignoring your own TC and responsible gaming page.


Did I miss anything?


the full original thread can be found here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/21...p-acr-1668177/

They should have refunded your money and closed your account.

Why close the account? I just asked for a timed self exclusion like you can ask for at any other reputable site, this is putting the blame on the player, for what? for wanting to take a break? Is it my fault they don't abide by their own rules and the industry standard that I should have my account closed? I suppose anyone who wants a timed self exclusion is a degen? This is exactly the kind of thinking they are relying on to get away with blatantly saying one thing and doing another.

The best outcome would have been returning the money, and enforcing the self exclusion for the original amount of time asked for and agreed to, not penalizing the player for their own misconduct.

Why only the two options? what is the point of a timed self exclusion then?

If there are players who sometimes need a cooldown period, they are basically telling them they can't have one, or their account will be closed. This will prevent players who need a break from asking for one due to the fear of account closure, and that is taking advantage of people by giving them a choice between their account being closed and having no way to take an enforced break. Nobody else does this, and its not right no matter how you twist it

Because you re opened the account in less than a week. You show the signs of having at the very least a lack of self control and if they were responsible they would refund the money for their error and close the account for your benefit.

Possibly, but the fact is I asked for the self exclusion myself. I know when I need a break. I shouldn't have my account shuttered because of their actions.

The fact is I've never had gambling affect my personal life in any way. It is possible to have a rough patch due to many factors. If they had followed their policy I wouldn't be in this mess and that is the point.

People have a tendency to rush to judgment in cases like this, its a natural aspect of human psychology. But it doesn't make it so, and it doesn't mean I should be penalized for their actions. It's also what they are relying on to basically scare people away from asking for self exclusions (or the reasonable expectation of their enforcement), which is a dangerous precedent to set, and not the way the industry is supposed to work in these matters.


This whole idea of the perma ban is really a smoke job to cover the core issue here, which is they are acting irresponsibly on their end, and taking advantage of people who might want a break for many reasons. All the while blaming the player for their actions, and trying to shame/scare them into keeping quiet about it.


If you can't expect a self exclusion without having your account banned, then WTH is the point of it. It makes sense anyway you cut it.

Inherent in the idea of the self exclusion is the understanding that the player may ask to have it reversed and cannot do so. By your logic any players needing a break should be banned. Otherwise why would they have the notion in the first place.

A ban would seem more appropriate for players who cannot find the clarity ask for a self exclusion themselves, No?

and if they are acting this way in my small case, what does that say about how they would act in more serious cases, of people with really big gambling addictions? YOu think they are going to ban them, or take their money if they can't ask for help themselves?

I said they were wrong for lifting the ban and should refund your money.

But nowhere in your post do I see you taking any share of the responsibility for what were ultimately your actions. You asked for a temp ban. A couple of days later you couldn't wait around anymore and asked to have it lifted. Then you lost a bunch of money. As I said, they should not have lifted the ban and because of that they should return your money. If they were concerned about responsible gaming the next step is clear. You could t last a week on a self exclusion. It is likely that you have a problem (not saying you do saying it is likely) and it is also likely there will be issues in the future. So for the benefit of both parties involved - them and you - they should close your account.

your entitled to your opinion of course, but its really besides the point in this case. Thanks though, it's a tough situation all around.

At the very least, they should stop advertising that they offer self exclusion or believe in it; its blatantly misleading and gives players who may need it a false sense of security.

I know exactly how I gamble...

I fly to Vegas every 6 months with the expectation of losing a specific sum of money. My self ban is the 6 months in between each trip.

When I decide to play online poker I am more of the "go big or go home" type. I'll play higher limits, bet big on sports, and be uber-aggressive in tournaments. I don't deposit to make a few dollars every day. I take random shots and either hit grand slams or strike out. My personal bankroll is more than sufficient to cover these shots and the funds that I deposit on ACR do not affect my standard of living in the likely event that I go broke online.

I know that I go on tilt after a few things don't go my way but I also know that the tilt will pass over time. I lose my online bankroll, get pissed for a few months and don't feel like playing, and then eventually get the itch to play again. However, I know that if I gamble in the "in between" months it probably is not going to go well. I'm still pissed about losing my previous shot and try too hard to get even.

This is why honoring the self-ban is so important to me. The self-ban allows me for the tilt to pass instead of going all martingale on sports bets.

I perma-banned myself on all other online gambling sites so I could be in total control of my online gambling. I either play ACR or ATTEMPT to ban myself if I feel it's appropriate.

doczensoosed, I TOTALLY appreciate and sympathize with your battle with gambling and its attraction. I think your account should not have been re-opened how it was and it sucks that you lost the money. While all that is tough and I truly wish you the best in your battle, its tough to see WPN being totally responsible here. Was your account reopened too early? Sure, but how do they know you did not request it for a different reason? I don't intend to be a prick about it, but look at it from their side. First of all, their online support is not very good. Sometimes it feels like it is a couple of baboons pushing buttons on a keyboard. They are not at all like TD or wpn-rep in the forum.

I honestly hope you are successful in dealing with your demons. I mentioned in your thread that my wife's aunt almost lost the family home from gambling, slot machine. I also think that the abuser should take some responsibility in their actions. That isn't meant to sound harsh or cold, just realistic. I've had anger issues and lashed out more than once. More than once it has led to my arrest and incarceration for various levels of assault or similar type of charges. I can explain my actions away by being 'pushed into a corner' either by words or actions, yet I could, and should, have had self restraint in the matters. The arrests and punishments were of my own actions. It took a long time for me to openly admit that I was the reason for the problem. Twenty years later I still battle the urges to physically lash out. It never goes away, but it is on me to keep it in check.

I think offering someone with a gambling issue a free ticket is feeding the monster and totally wrong. I also don't see how WPN is 100% at fault. There is the possibility that you had a hacking issue or some other problem that would lead to a short term exclusion. It isn't their job to interpret the root cause. I should not be able to sue/hold liable a bar that served me alcohol in a raucous crowd because I have a short fuse. I should know better than to enter the place. The bar owner did not know that I am a hot head and WPN CS does not know you have a gambling issue.

I can only imagine this comes across in the wrong way, but I totally sympathize with you and the predicament of habitual behavior. Part of the steps to recovery are self responsibility. WPN should have met you in between with cash refund, as they were in the wrong too, but I also understand their position. I don't say this in spite or to be nasty, but I hope they ban you and you find a solid solution for you and your family.

Totally straight up here, I do hope you slay the dragon when it pops up. I've dealt with it, winning the last 20 or so, for many years.

Thanks for your thoughts, the fact is gambling has never affected me or my family ( I don't go to casinos or play any games but poker, and have funds in a joint bank account I wouldn't dream of playing with). But I'll keep it in mind.

I do agree though that they should return the funds; If they wanted to close the account, I could live with it. Go regulated poker in NY!

I see this as ACR's problem not mine, all this talk about gambling problems is besides the point; clearly ACR doesn't care about that or they wouldn't be lifting self exclusions and then blaming it on the player cause "they asked to have it open" No other poker room does this, you know why? Cause its total BS,plain and simple; a cynical and immoral way to get more cash onto the site disregarding all principle. Anything besides the facts of the issue here (self exclusion should not be lifted for any reason) is just a simple muddying of the waters with clearly faulty logic and reasoning that ignores all the facts and common industry practice while trying to make it a personal issue or failing shifting responsibility to the player.

I expected people to assume I must have a gambling problem when I started this thread, and decided not to care.

I'm guessing they've been relying on exactly your type of response to keep people from reporting what is clearly not standard industry practice. If you say anything about this, you'll look like a degen and nobody will care, even better you'll get blamed and labeled. While we keep your money and possibly ban you (for your gambling problem obv); while not needing to follow our own rules and the way self exclusion is interpreted and implemented on every other reputable site.

Honestly, if they ban my account at this point I really don't care. I can wait... I guess I'll just let my gambling addiction hibernate for a while, lol, I won't be dropping any extra cash or tax refunds there any more, thats for sure.

So, there are no immediate winners here. The site looks bad, you look bad, and that poor employee that re-opened your account, surely looks bad. My question is, if you self ban in the future, will you then turn around and ask for reinstatement before the ban is up? Any winners will be those that read these threads, and understand if they self ban, they need to let the ban complete. I'm just old school. I've made more mistakes and poor choices in my life than Carter has liver pills. But, I understand, I did what I did and got what I got. Really no one to blame but myself.

Then I am confused. What is the reasoning behind expecting a refund for playing?

lol, nevermind

have a nice day!

So, what if you knew before hand that they allowed this to happen and tried to freeroll them hoping they'd save face and pay you in the worst case? I'm not saying you did that at all, but on their side they have no way of knowing that. Had you ran it up, this thread doesn't exist.

They look awful in this situation and shed a horrible light on online gambling, but they didn't even owe you a $109 ticket, let alone $1700.

They aren't regulated and their website says "trusted certified", whatever the **** that means.... you play at your own risk. I mean ****, they don't even pretend to have a fake regulator like Kahnawake and the likes, they give no ****s about any rules or regulations and are blatantly feeding off degenerates. ( see this new bs double up)

If you feel so strongly about them holding to their TOS( that doesn't mean a damn thing) why didn't you post a thread before you blew $1700?

I feel for your issue, which you are delusional to think you don't have, but you lost the money, not them.

Yep, that was an awful decision. They should have immediately reinstated the initial self-exclusion period, but instead they goad him into playing more by offering a ticket.

The fact that WPN is rationalizing their decision to unblock accounts because they don't know the reason for the self-exclusion is ridiculous as well. It doesn't matter if somebody blocks their account because of a work/school commitment, travel, or a gambling issue. The account should remain closed regardless. It should never even be up for interpretation. That's why sites strictly enforce these self-exclusion periods; they don't want to even have to entertain an explanation from a player as to why the self-exclusion period should be lifted early.

This sounds right to me, and they way I thought it worked. A reversible self-exclusion period makes very little sense to me.

It looked like in both cases there was a 2 month window from the time asking for a temp ban and then asking for re instatement. That is somewhat worth noting because WPN should be enforcing the ban once they get the original request, any subsequent requests regarding that ban should simply be ignored until the date they would be eligible back from their original request.

Not the first or 87th time WPN or their "customer service" has done something unethical.

The actions of ACR in these cases plays right into the hands of those that want to ban online poker and gambling in the guise of helping those that can't help themselves. (People addicted and people who can't afford to lose what they would risk.)

Straighten up ACR.

Wow i just went back and read all the original forum posts and ACR is totally in the wrong on this. The response from Winning TD sounds like the closing argument from a defense attorney to the jury going to bat for a person who everyone in the courtroom knows is guilty. Say he won the sunday milliion for 170K, yeah ACR would totally be in the right, according to their T&C to come back and say, "oh you asked for a self ban back in March and we lifted it when we shouldn't have, all monies won during x time frame will be forfeited and your original 1700 refunded" or based on the callous nature of their response, we are gonna keep that 1700 too. The poster prob wouldnt have came and started a thread had he won off that 1700, but if he won big and ACR looked deeper into it, they would have a legal loophole (if there are laws to an unregulated poker site) to confiscate his winnings and basically steal that money. Either way, ACR is bending the T&C to weasel their way out of accountability on this issue.

I will close this thread now.

Giving a ticket to someone that doesnt have a gambling problem isnt me trying to goad him into play more. It was just a gesture of my own to give it and maybe he can bink something nice.

I have said many times it was wrong to be re opened and obviously if he had won we would never of taken the money we just dont do that ever.

It could of been a potential freeroll, i to am not saying it is but that is a concern.

However this case has been closed. Agree or disagree with the outcome it wont be changed now.