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Old 01-13-2017, 01:05 AM   #126
Zebb
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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No, unfortunately we had to postpone once again. We're looking at mid March now.
put the **** back the way it was already
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Old 01-14-2017, 09:24 AM   #127
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

Holy **** this is just sad.
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:58 PM   #128
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

Since it's going to be awhile before they're ready anyway, can we get plo8 added to these? Surely all formats would feed into the same jackpot pool at each stake - so this should help build up more overall traffic/big jackpots. And based on normal sng traffic across all sites for many years now, I think plo8 sngs would run more often than plo.

Along this same line of reasoning the plo jackpots also most likely would have ran much more often if they were plo8, but I understand it's too late to change that. However there's no excuse now to repeat the same mistake with sng 2.0
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:33 PM   #129
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

NLO8 jackpots >> PLO8 jackpots. NLO plays so much better for short stacks and is a very popular game.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:55 PM   #130
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

Yeah NL would most definitely be fine with me, you, and many of the o8 regs and recs, but I think PL would appeal to more players on WPN tbh. Especially since they haven't ran any NLO8 sngs here, only PLO8. Changing things too much runs the risk of turning some of them away.

Both of us and most o8 regs will play any NL/PLO8 format, but I've noticed over the years that there are far more players who will play plo8 but wont usually play nlo8 than there are ones who will play nlo8 but wont usually play plo8. I'm not sure why, but maybe because so many come from PLO and are just comfortable with the PL format...maybe the same with players who came from the old FLO8 cash games too. Whatever reason it may be - PLO8 just seems to attract a bit wider crowd.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:39 AM   #131
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

I dunno, NLO8 is the most popular game when we play mixed games in my home game. I have friends to refuse to play anything not NL because they feel, well, limited. Explaining PL and how pot limit works can be confusing and turn off new players. NL is the easiest to understand. Why should we deprive players the chance to say gamboool and play NLO8. I'm def in the rec category and I'd always rather NL over PL for any sort of hyper omaha format.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:54 AM   #132
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

I thought so too, and for pretty much the same reasons you mentioned. NL would probably be a bit better for 3-handed jackpots tbh. But with more people at the table, the majority would want some time in the earliest stages to play around a bit postflop. I could definitely see it turning players off if it goes right into flipping pre, especially 8 or 9-handed.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:55 AM   #133
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

If you like playing jackpot poker but dislike flipping, you have a bit of a mental disconnect
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:08 PM   #134
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

I don't think that we need a new SNG format and here's why:

1. If you divide the pool of SNG players between too many formats, no one is happy. When I played on PokerStars, they were very reponsive to player requests and suggestions (they even had a Players Committee which included Daniel Negraneau) more and more SNG formats and levels were added When I first started on the site playing $1 regular speed one-table SNGs, it took a long time to build a bankroll to move up because the next level was $5.

Over time, the number of levels and types of SNGs exploded. We had turbos and hypertuobos. Extra levels were added so that the starter levels were $1, $3 and $5. There were 1-, 2-, 3-, 4- and 5-player SNGs, plus 90 and 180 players. There was even a 10-cent 360 player SNG. Then came the double-or-nothings and 50/50s.

It got to the point where players grinding SNGs to make money were complaining. The SNG player pool was spread across so many types, levels and formats that the grinders were having trouble multi-tabling, or sometimes just getting a game going.

Keep in mind that 2008 PokerStars (I think that was the year that this came to a head) had a huge player pool compared to 2017 WPN. If you get too fancy and have too many game types, your regular players aren't going to be happy with their options.
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:01 AM   #135
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

The regular plo8 Sit-n-goes on ACR pretty much never fill anyways. It's all on demand ones which almost always end up with 2+ tables. I feel like there would be some good demand for plo8 or nlo8 jackpots. Either is great by me
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:05 AM   #136
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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Originally Posted by ILoveClOCKS View Post
The regular plo8 Sit-n-goes on ACR pretty much never fill anyways. It's all on demand ones which almost always end up with 2+ tables. I feel like there would be some good demand for plo8 or nlo8 jackpots. Either is great by me
Agreed!
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Old 01-24-2017, 04:46 AM   #137
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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Assuming that the prize pool selection process is as I've described above, the biggest ones will hit with the following probabilities:

10% of the JP ('mini') - once in ~3467 games;
20% of the JP ('midi') - exactly 12 times less often, once in ~15602 games;
75% of the JP ('maxi') - exactly 54 times less often than the 'mini', once in ~187218 games.

So most (63%) of the money won from the united JP will be won from the 'mini' chunks, 28% - from the 'midi' and only 9% - from the 'maxi'. This is surely good for the 'grindability' of the games (i.e. the risk of ruin of a winning player is small enough). Also, it means that the size of the total JP will be fluctuating smoothly enough, as it will seldom experience big shocks (be reduced by 4 times) and, most of the time, it will only be suffering from small 10-20% 'bites'.

The average JP size will be ~21897 times the total contribution per game. E.g. if, in each $10 game, $5 is put into the JP (so the JP contribution per player is $5/9 ~ $0.56, or ~5.56% of the BI), then the JP will be ~$109.5K on average.

Anyone who's interested in the details of how the math is done may ask me convincingly so that I put the details into a thread in the Probability forum.

Speaking of, I was wrong above - the probability of the minimum prize pool is exactly 50%. Indeed, if we ignore the gold cards altogether, the smallest pool hits if and only if the first non-gold card is red, and there are 26 such cards out of 52 non-gold.

Assuming the paytable of non-JP tiers I've given above, the sum of the rake and the JP contribution will be ~14.5% of the BI, thus the rake itself will be 9% (a quarter of that will be feeding Sit and Crush as usual, while 6.75% of the BI will be earning loyalty points). It's a realistically pessimistic scenario - that's how iPoker's 6-man JP SnGs are raked.

Once again, that's all pure speculation based on the promo video.
Interesting, but I wonder how many players will be driven away just because it's complicated to figure out. When I could play on PokerStars I remember when the 50/50 SNGs replace the double-or-nothing, and threads were dominated by discussion by discussion of what the best strategy might be, what a good ROI would be, etc, etc. Most of the people posting were intelligent, but struggling to their heads around the new format.

I remember being very frustrated by the whole thing. I had been mostly playing DONs and I just wanted to play, study and get better. My time was limited and I didn't want to spend a significant amount of time just to figure out the format and whether I could make money playing it. No one seemed to completely understand it.

A 6- or 9-player SNG is easy to understand. A double-or-nothing SNG is easy to understand. Something that is hard to understand might just drive the fish away.

I could teach my 9-year-old granddaughter how to play chess. I couldn't walk her through those probability calculations.
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Old 01-24-2017, 04:52 AM   #138
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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It seems to me that a significant part of the people who prefer 9-mans do so because they hate variance. The hyper speed aren't going to appeal to them no matter the table size, and neither are any jackpots, especially progressive ones. The reason why MTT players prefer 9-max - they're reseated less often there - is irrelevant for SNGs.
You are exactly right. That's whey I like them. A lot of players use SNGs to grind up a bankroll for something else. Jonathan Little built his WPT bankroll grinding SNGs. That bankroll was big enough to get LIttle through his first year on the WPT, when he lost money, and allowed him to play the second season and be a winner.

You're not going to pick a high-variance format to do that kind of grinding.
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:48 PM   #139
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

Formats that discourage grinding are good for poker. More recs, they win more money, keep playing, keep depositing, etc. Then once the games are soft enough, grinders come back, until the game reaches an equilibrium.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:34 AM   #140
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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Originally Posted by WPN Rep View Post
No, unfortunately we had to postpone once again. We're looking at mid March now.
Since it's March 1 tomorrow figured I'd bump this to put it back on our radar. "Mid-March" we shall see.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:51 AM   #141
p2 dog, p2
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

lulz. i dont even think the jackpots are figured out quite yet
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:46 PM   #142
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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Since it's March 1 tomorrow figured I'd bump this to put it back on our radar. "Mid-March" we shall see.
March 15th is the launch date.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:05 PM   #143
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

march 15th.... but what year?
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:07 PM   #144
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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March 15th is the launch date.
ty for the update, and cmon people remain optimistic now. I know its been a long time coming, but being negative really isnt going to help at all. Especially, if you want answers from a rep. They arent going to come back to a thread where it is pure berates. Thanks again rep for answering quickly
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:17 PM   #145
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

March 2019 (ROFL)
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:20 PM   #146
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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March 2019 (ROFL)
can i take the over pls :P
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:26 PM   #147
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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March 2019 (ROFL)
Any other big plans or news announced that day?!??
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:41 PM   #148
zoogenhiem
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

I would be super excited for this...if only it would be on Mac too. Or at least bring back jackpots to Mac please!
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:42 PM   #149
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

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Any other big plans or news announced that day?!??
Mobile App will also be deployed that day.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:45 PM   #150
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Re: ACR new SNG 2.0

Now i have to be professional..

March 2017.
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