Your own source clearly states that the only reason Pokerstars lost merely 10,000 players is because all of the players from Full Tilt moved to Stars when it shut down.

I'm just going by your own source. You might want to go back and actually read it the way I did. As you clearly just cherry picked one little tidbit of information, took it out context, and presented it as fact.

It says directly in the article there was 30,000 players on April 1 and 20,000 on April 30. Full Tilt was not shut down by April 30. What the article says is that PokerStars has gotten back up to 24,200 active users one year after Black Friday, because Full Tilt shut down.

Direct quote:

"On Black Friday PokerStars lost roughly 40 per cent of their players, going from a daily average of about 33,000 players on April 1, 2011 to 20,000 on April 30.

But since Full Tilt Poker, their biggest competitor, was completely shut down as a result of Black Friday, many of FTP's non-US customers made the switch to PokerStars."

It clearly says "40%" of their players were lost. That means 40% were Americans.

Another quote:

"Party lost roughly 60 per cent of its player base when it decided to pull out of the US market"

Were you trying to post evidence to back up my figures?

Wow, you are getting on me about taking things out of context.

40% =/= 70%

"On Black Friday PokerStars lost roughly 40 per cent of their players, going from a daily average of about 33,000 players on April 1, 2011 to 20,000 on April 30.

But since Full Tilt Poker, their biggest competitor, was completely shut down as a result of Black Friday, many of FTP's non-US customers made the switch to PokerStars.

And now, with the introduction of Zoom Poker, PokerStars is even more appealing to former Full Tilt players.

One year after Black Friday, PokerStars is averaging 24,200 players per day."

Another quote:

"Party lost roughly 60 per cent of its player base when it decided to pull out of the US market"

Whoops. Only 10% different than my figure. Thanks for posting evidence to back up my figure. You just did the work for me. Now, keep in mind...A LOT of American players stopped playing poker in 2006 (including myself) when Party Poker left because players in America were concerned about the legality of online poker at that point.

I stopped playing online poker in 2006 because of what happened with Party Poker and other sites because I was concerned about the legality of it. I didn't get back on to play until 2009. A lot of American players never got back on. So, the Pokerstars numbers from 2010-2011 aren't really an accurate reflection of the market. Had those issues not popped up in 2006 Americans would've continued to constitute "60-70%" of the market.

Just going to go ahead and assume you're trolling.

Except, that was before Europe and Asia were big players in the market. (2006-2007). See, this is the problem with most Americans, they think that we are the center of the world, when in reality, we are just a cog. While we are a bigger cog than most, we are still just a piece of the puzzle. If you compare 2006 to 2010 and then to 2015, you show that you really don't understand how infant markets grow and change very quickly.

Where are the largest profit margins for large casinos coming from? The US or Asia? The market is different. America isn't the center of the universe. Hate to burst your bubble.

Yeah, but it wasn't just Europe and Asia entering the market. It was Americans simultaneously leaving the market at the same time.

Had the problems with Party not happened in 2006 Europe and Asia wouldn't have done anything to change that 60-70% figure. As the poker boom would've continued in the US at the same time Europe and Asia entered the market and new players from the states would've continued entering at the same time as new players from abroad. Instead , the opposite happened...the poker boom stopped (or at least slowed down) in the states and began elsewhere.

That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority have and always will be located in America. At least, until other countries show more of a presence.

No, it's you who doesn't understand that you need to factor in the markets from every year poker has existed to get an accurate assessment of the market as a whole. Not just the most recent years that were subjected to numerous legal issues.

If you don't take into consideration the legal factors that caused American players to leave the market you're not getting an accurate perspective of the actual size of the market as a whole. You're simply picking out the most recent year and saying, "this is the only market that has ever existed, or will ever exist."

The most recent years are the product of legal issues that have nothing to do with actual market trends. If poker had been allowed to continue untouched by authorities Americans would've remained in the dominant 70%. Even with the legal issues in 2006 they still constituted "40 %" in 2011 according to your own sources.

That means 40% (potentially 60-70% of ALL online players) of Pokerstars' pre-Black Friday player pool is accessible to WPN and not Pokerstars. That's why WPN could easily run tournaments with a Pokerstars structure and pull it off. They have the majority of Pokerstars' player pool at their disposal.

No, the facts show that Party Poker lost "60% of their player pool" in 2006 when they left the US market. No trolling here. Just the facts.

What does 2006 Partypoker have to do with 2010 Pokerstars?

It doesn't need to have anything to do with it to prove that the majority of online players are American and that WPN could easily handle Pokerstars' MTT structures with half the guaranteed money. Being that half of Pokerstar's 2010 market is here in the USA.

Which, a $20K GTD R/A falls into that category perfectly. As it's half of Pokerstars $45k GTD R/A.

SO, are we gonna see more $11- 20k GTD?

Thats all I care about...

Also comparing Stars 2010 or whatever year to WPN today is just pointless. Whatever you achieve out of this argument will have little to no baring on what WPN will do.

They have people they pay to make their own MTT schedule. Make a suggestion and move on.

You all know that 99.9% of quotes and stats are made up on the interwebz anyway.

So by your logic WPN should be able to successfully run a 500k every Sunday...but they don't because once again, WPN isn't Pokerstars.

As of right now, the plan is to run a $1 Million every Sunday starting in October. That's not consistent with your logic at all.

Obviously, WPN is thinking the same thing I'm thinking. I take it you'll be here in September claiming that their plan won't work and abruptly getting proven wrong a month later.

Funny.

People said the exact same thing when I requested in January that WPN change their blind levels from 15 minutes to 10-12 minutes because it was taking too long for the tournament to end and making it inconvenient for many recreational players to play. Many people agreed with me.

Here we are a month later in a thread discussing a tournament with a 12 minute level structure. There are also multiple MTT's on the schedule now with 10 minute levels. So....

Yes, they do. Unfortunately, the person they gave the job to was a cash game grinder named "MamaCoolJ." He is the Tournament Director.

I found an interview with him from 2011 where he openly says that he doesn't play tournaments and doesn't like them. No offense, but somebody who openly admits to not playing in tournaments and disliking them probably isn't going to make the best decisions when scheduling tournaments and could use some extra input from people who do have experience playing MTT's.

Just sayin...

P.S.

Even though MTT's aren't his area of expertise he is doing a very good job when it comes to listening to players and testing out new MTT's.

lol

That's 7 months from now, after the wsop when they'll pick up a few players here and there.... just because they plan to doesn't mean they'll be able too. I'd be surprised if they could run it every week without overlay.

They're thinking "Let's grow the site"? shocker.

I won't be the least bit surprised when they do it and crush the guarantee each time. If they hit $900k out of $1 Million after what happened back in December they'll hit $1 Milly no problem from here on out.

The players who were skeptical of playing in the most recent Milly will have no problem playing in any Milly going forward.

Unfortunately for you, though, that doesn't seem to be the case this time, does it?


No, just no. Just no. Just no. MamaCoolJ is not the same person as Winning_TD.

I'm pretty sure he admitted that he was MamaCoolJ in another thread.

Which, is perfectly fine as he's an accomplished player. I'm just not sure he understands how to schedule tournies in the micro-stakes range when he is playing 40 cash game tables and crushing the Beast each month.

jajaja que? He's more on the software side. MCJ is QTip on 2p2 and just started working for WPN late last year.


IIRC TD was an sng grinder.

Ah.

Thanks for clearing that up.

WPN is definitely doing it right hiring actual players.

regardless....who fkn cares what WinningTDs credentials are....he's done A LOT for the MTT players on WPN. sure, its far from perfect and I understand many of the gripes people have with their tournaments in general...but dont forget that WPN themselves, chose to open their own dedicated 2+2 forum and more importantly, decided to seek out the feedback and input from their players; with an emphasis on MTT poker once Winning_TD showed up.

don't forget how far along we've come on WPN and how much the MTT schedule has changed and improved for the most part.

You have Winning_TD and WPN Rep mixed up...